ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: suggest

MrPedantic — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:12:48 GMT

3. To make evident indirectly; intimate or imply: a silence that suggested disapproval.

I'm a little uncomfortable with that definition; it seems to relate to a different kind of implication. Thus the "disapproval" can be inferred from the silence; but the need for lighting can't be inferred from common sense.

For me, "common sense suggests" means "I conclude on the basis of common sense".

MrP

Re: suggest

Taka — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:19:14 GMT

CalifJim
To my ear, that would be quite a stretch!

I see. Thanks, Jim!

MrPedantic
I would take "suggest" in the original example to mean "cause (one) to think"; which doesn't seem to match any of the Bartleby interpretations.

I see what you mean, MrP. But then your interpretation seems to be basically the same as #3 of the American Heritage.

Re: suggest

MrPedantic — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:23:49 GMT

I would take "suggest" in the original example to mean "cause (one) to think"; which doesn't seem to match any of the Bartleby interpretations.

MrP

Re: suggest

CalifJim — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:34:17 GMT

Taka
I wonder if the 'suggest' in question could be used as offering advice in that sentence

To my ear, that would be quite a stretch! common sense is far too vague and impersonal to suggest or advise in a literal way. True, a message can't literally advise either, but at least we know someone wrote the message, so it's easy to connect a message with a person who could literally suggest or advise. Common sense cannot speak or write or communicate in any way, so it's quite difficult to see "better lighting reduce(s) crime" as advice.

The message advises that the United States Congress be petitioned to deepen ...

Common sense suggests that better lighting reduces crime.

On the other hand:

The city council suggests/advises/recommends/prefers that better lighting be installed to reduce crime.

Re: suggest

Clive — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:05:04 GMT

Hi,

The message advises that the United States Congress be petitioned to deepen, and clear San Juan Harbor.

As a tiny and highly irrelevant comment, I see the comma here as wrong.
Clive

Re: suggest

Taka — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 16:31:24 GMT

CalifJim
the answer is "Yes, but only in its definition as offering advice -- not in its other meanings, such as the one being discussed here."
CJ

Right, Jim.

And I wonder if the 'suggest' in question could be used as offering advice in that sentence, in the same way as this 'advise' here:

The message advises that the United States Congress be petitioned to deepen, and clear San Juan Harbor.

Re: suggest

New2grammar — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:25:58 GMT

I see. Actually MH pointed out in that thread. You need the tags. The script on this site doesn't automatically recognize the http symbol. Sorry that I was of no help to you the other day.

Re: suggest

Yoong Liat — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 08:20:02 GMT

Hi New2grammar

If you click on Taka's link, it will not show the contents of the link. Now you should know what I was trying to say when I mentioned it a couple of days.ago.

Re: suggest

New2grammar — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:22:08 GMT

I wanted to say subjunctive. It's a really difficult topic and as you can see I was so confused I even misspelled the word. I wish there were no subjunctives.

Re: suggest

CalifJim — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:14:02 GMT

New2grammar
Isn't suggest subjective?

I think you mean "Doesn't suggest govern the subjunctive?", and the answer is "Yes, but only in its definition as offering advice -- not in its other meanings, such as the one being discussed here."

Re: suggest

New2grammar — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:19:00 GMT

Isn't suggest subjective?

He suggested his girfriend go home.

Re: suggest

RayH — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:09:13 GMT

Yoong Liat
Common sense suggests that better lighting reduce crime.

I can't go along with this one. It's clearly incorrect.

Re: suggest

Yoong Liat — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:06:18 GMT

I've seen all the sentences used, and I believe all of them are fine.

Common sense suggests that better lighting reduces crime.

Common sense suggests that better lighting reduce crime.

Common sense suggests that better lighting should reduce crime.

Re: suggest

New2grammar — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:03:13 GMT

Taka
Common sense suggests that better lighting reduces crime.

Should it be bare infinitive?

Re: suggest

RayH — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 03:57:31 GMT

I don't see a problem with this. I'm not sure why you put "should" in parenthesis since it's required for the sentence to make sense.
Also, "would reduce crime", "ought to reduce crime", "will reduce crime", that's all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure there are others.