ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Viceidol — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:59:03 GMT

Mr Wordy

(But I notice you say "I didn't translate it very well". So, the explanation is not written in English? Is it possible that you're still mistranslating it?)

No, my understanding this time is right. Then I believe this part of my grammar book must be wrong.

I'd really like to ask further into this question. Allow me to write a new post to discuss it. Thank you, Mr. Wordy. You've helped me a lot!

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Mr Wordy — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:08:34 GMT

Viceidol
"It's a long time since he lived there." suggests "He does not live there now.(He lived there.)",

Roughly correct, but omits to say that he left a long time ago (I suppose they take that as being obvious).

Viceidol
"It's a long time since he has lived there." suggests "He still lives here now. (He has lived there for a long time.)"

Nonsense. If your book really does say this then I recommend you throw it away and get a different one.

(But I notice you say "I didn't translate it very well". So, the explanation is not written in English? Is it possible that you're still mistranslating it?)

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Viceidol — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 02:26:02 GMT

Mr Wordy

Viceidol
It's a long time since he lived there. (It suggests "He does not live there for a long time.")
It's a long time since he has lived there. (It suggests "He lives there for a long time.")
Are you sure that you copied those right-hand sentences correctly? Neither of them is good English, except, unusually, in the context of a present-tense narrative, which I can't imagine is the intention here (and in any case would not lead to correct interpretations of the sentences in italics).

I'm sorry that I didn't translate it very well, but the book says: "It's a long time since he lived there." suggests "He does not live there now.(He lived there.)", and "It's a long time since he has lived there." suggests "He still lives here now. (He has lived there for a long time.)"

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Mr Wordy — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:55:15 GMT

Viceidol
It's a long time since he lived there. (It suggests "He does not live there for a long time.")
It's a long time since he has lived there. (It suggests "He lives there for a long time.")

Are you sure that you copied those right-hand sentences correctly? Neither of them is good English, except, unusually, in the context of a present-tense narrative, which I can't imagine is the intention here (and in any case would not lead to correct interpretations of the sentences in italics).

To me, there is no material difference in meaning between the two sentences in italics. Both mean that he used to live there, but he left a long time ago and does not live there now.

More generally, though, the simple past means that we're referring to a single instance of whatever activity it is, and the perfect tense tends to suggest several instances or a pattern of behaviour. This difference is of little importance with the verb "lived", but in other cases it can be more apparent. For example,

It's a long time since he's visited America. -- Suggests that he previously visited America several times, perhaps regularly, but that this pattern of behaviour stopped a long time ago.

It's a long time since he visited America. -- Means that it's been a long time since that last specific visit. (Note, though, that it's quite possible to use this form even if he used to visit regularly, because there's always a last specific visit.)

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Viceidol — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:41:06 GMT

Hello, Mr. Wordy, may I ask one more question?

One of my grammar boooks gives the following interpretation:

It's a long time since he lived there. (It suggests "He does not live there for a long time.")

It's a long time since he has lived there. (It suggests "He lives there for a long time.")

Is that right? What do you think?

Sorry to bother.

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Mr Wordy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:07:27 GMT

Viceidol
Thank you for your extensive explanation.

Wordy by name...

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Viceidol — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:02:45 GMT

Thank you for your extensive explanation.

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Marius Hancu — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:46:00 GMT

>"seeing that", meaning something like "considering that"

This I understand ... I forgot as=that sometimes. Thanks.

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Mr Wordy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:42:19 GMT

Marius Hancu
I agree with the above, but what is "seeing as" ???

It's a more informal version of "seeing that", meaning something like "considering that", "in view of the fact that", "taking into account the fact that", sometimes merging into "because". Probably I shouldn't have chosen such a colloquial and idiomatic expression to explain what I meant.

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Marius Hancu — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:13:58 GMT

Mr. Wordy:

>We visit my parents every week since we have bought a car.-- "Since" in the sense of a duration of time doesn't work so well for me with "have bought", so here I tend interpret "since" as meaning "seeing as"

I agree with the above, but what is "seeing as" ???

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Mr Wordy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:47:16 GMT

Mr Wordy
It is three years since I left here. -- Here there is more of a sense that I inhabited or frequented this place (say a house, or a town) until three years ago (then I left, and now I've returned again).

It occurred to me later that this could be interpreted completely differently, to mean that I've been here (say in a prison, on an island, or some other place where one might be confined) constantly for the last three years. Three years ago I left it (presumably relatively briefly), then returned, and since then I haven't left the place once. This interpretation doesn't come very naturally to me though.

Re: A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Mr Wordy — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:03:41 GMT

You might get different opinions on some of these, but here's my take.

It is three years since I have been here. / It is three years since I was here. -- The use of "here" implies that I'm in that place now, and I understand both these to mean "I'm here now, and I was here three years ago, but I haven't been here at any time during the intervening three years." Some might argue that it's more correct to say: It's (been) three years since I was last here.

It is three years since I left here. -- Here there is more of a sense that I inhabited or frequented this place (say a house, or a town) until three years ago (then I left, and now I've returned again).

We visit my parents every week since we bought a car. -- I think it should be "We have visited my parents...", though I suppose "We visit" is passable in everyday conversation, even if strictly speaking it might be grammatically suspect. This sentence means that we bought a car at some time in the past, and every week since then we've visited my parents. "We visit" implies that this pattern of behaviour will continue into the future, whereas "We have visited" is neutral on that point. (It is also possible to interpret "since" as meaning "seeing as", as explained below, but this interpretation doesn't come very naturally to me here.)

We visit my parents every week since we have bought a car.-- "Since" in the sense of a duration of time doesn't work so well for me with "have bought", so here I tend interpret "since" as meaning "seeing as". In other words, having a car enables us to visit our parents. (If the writer didn't mean that, then why did he not just say "bought"?). This changes the meaning significantly.

A question about tense usage in "since clause"

Viceidol — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 00:14:11 GMT

Hello, everyone:

It is three years since I have been here. (It means I am still here right now. Am I right?)

It is three years since I was here. (It means I am not here right now. And I think this sentence mean the same as "It is three years since I left here." Am I right?)

We visit my parents every week since we bought a car. (I think this sentence means the same as "We visit my parents every week since we have bought a car." Am I right?)

Please help me with this, thank you!!