ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Yankee — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:01:36 GMT

CalifJim
(Actually even that sentence from the BYU Corpus sounds a little "off" to my ear. In fact, the inversion strikes me as poetic, or at least "literary". Go figure.)

Yes, Jim, I'd tend to agree with that. However, it does not strike me as "extremely" poetic or literary by any means. I have also heard people use "have/has long ago (done)" in everyday English in my neck of the woods -- not terribly often, but often enough that it does not sound that unusual to me.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Viceidol — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 13:16:27 GMT

Thank you, everybody. I understand now. (And this thread is the most "interesting" one I've ever seen in English Forum.)

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

optilang — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:59:45 GMT

New2grammar
"I've been living in California since a year ago" (Not OK.)

"I've been living in California since last year " (Is this OK?) - Yes

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

New2grammar — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 08:32:45 GMT

"I've been living in California since a year ago" (Not OK.)

"I've been living in California since last year " (Is this OK?)

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Goodman — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:20:52 GMT

Here is Foster for you! Thanks mate!
Glad to see you are not in the other camp!

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

CalifJim — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:16:08 GMT

Version 1.1: Never use ago in the same clause with a present perfect except in the phrase long ago used before the past participle!

(Actually even that sentence from the BYU Corpus sounds a little "off" to my ear. In fact, the inversion strikes me as poetic, or at least "literary". Go figure.)

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Lovebug — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 01:59:29 GMT

Hi Goodman.

I have been living in California since 3 years ago = that'll be so unacceptable in my camp.
I have been living in California for the past 3 years. = that's acceptable and will make a student pass their English test in a non-native land.

Yes, the word 'ago' with a present perfect tense, will appear to be a direct translation from a dialect or another language usually non-native English. I see this being practised.

cheers.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Goodman — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 21:01:36 GMT

Hi Amy,
most "rules of thumb" should be seen as rules that work much of the time rather than all the time.
I case I have not stated it clearly, that was the meaning I intended. Perhaps I may have inappropriately used "fired up" to suggests heavily discussed. It was figuratively over used.
I am of course not a grammarian and never will be one. Much of my knowledge has been obtained from walking the footprints of different styles of writers and from reading. My comments are not
to point out right or wrong, but how I was taught.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Yankee — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:55:13 GMT

Hi Goodman

I don't see the previous conversation as "fired up". On the contrary, I think it has been quite friendly.
I agree that 'ago' will generally not be found in the same clause with the present perfect, but I agree with Cool Breeze one thousand percent that it's dangerous to get too absolute when it comes to grammar "rules".

A good rule of thumb is always handy to have. However, most "rules of thumb" should be seen as rules that work much of the time rather than all the time.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Goodman — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:04:46 GMT

I don’t want to add fuel to the already fired up discussion but I was taught as a rule of thumb, that “since” and “ago” usage should be avoided in a present perfect sentence.

I know there is another camp which sees it differently.

I have been living in California since 3 years ago –to some this is acceptable. I was taught this is non-standard.
Somehow, the word "ago" just doesn't seem to stick to present perfect tense to me.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Yankee — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:57:54 GMT

CalifJim
OK. I'm going to get a little stupid. Never use ago in the same clause with a present perfect!

OK, and I'm going to take that as a challenge to prove the exception:

From the BYU Corpus:
"Some of the recipe cards are in my mother's handwriting. Others are from friends, many of whom have long ago moved away."

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

CalifJim — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:21:34 GMT

Cool Breeze
or at least a little stupid to say that something is never or always done or said.

OK. I'm going to get a little stupid. Never use ago in the same clause with a present perfect!

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Philip — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:48:03 GMT

Cool Breeze
Philip
Generally, no. But you could say, "I have seen that film, but it was long ago".

Very smart, Philip. Now, however, long ago is not in the same clause as the perfect have seen. We could of course also say: I have seen that film, but it was two years ago.

Exactly. I was just trying to show how 'long ago' could be associated with the concept.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Cool Breeze — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:44:42 GMT

Philip
Generally, no. But you could say, "I have seen that film, but it was long ago".

Very smart, Philip. Now, however, long ago is not in the same clause as the perfect have seen. We could of course also say: I have seen that film, but it was two years ago.

As to the original question, language is not an exact science. It's not math. It is impossible - or at least a little stupid to say that something is never or always done or said. There is often the unexpected exception to most rules.

Re: Is it possible to use present perfect with "long ago"?

Philip — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:38:24 GMT

Generally, no. But you could say, "I have seen that film, but it was long ago".