ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: where

Avangi — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:04:32 GMT

I agree with you about the comma. You're modifying the case on both ends. If you take away the "extreme," the comma goes away. "In a case where a town was crowded etc."

If you wish to keep the "extreme," I think you'd need to say, "In an extreme case, one where a town was crowded etc." (Notice that GG repeated "a case" in her example.)

I was leaning toward saying the "where" is incorrect, and must be replaced with "in which," but now I'm not so sure about it. I'm either in over my head or much too tired or both. Thanks for your patience.

- A.

Re: where

Taka — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:15:10 GMT

Avangi
I But "where" is clearly not a conjunction.

Is it really that obvious?

This would still make sense, wouldn't it?

Where a town was crowded with a whole bunch of clones, which is an extreme case, there would be practical problems.

Anyway that is not what I really wondering about.

I first thought it might be a relative adverb, but if it was so, I thought it should be the restrictive (i.e. the one without a comma in front). Don't you think the non-restrictive is kind of strange here?

Re: where

Avangi — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:00:41 GMT

It seems to me that the relative adverb and the prepositional phrase with the relative pronoun as object (in which) are completely interchangeable here. But "where" is clearly not a conjunction.

I think "in which" is more common. I think of "where" in explaining formulae, "f = ma, where f is the applied force etc."

GG's point was that your "relative adverb where" is not refering to a noun of place as it should, but to a case, which it should not. "In which" is the correct choice.

You may say, "In a town where a case was pending,". You may not say, "In a case where a town was abandoned,". A case is not a place.

Re: where

Taka — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:01:37 GMT

If it's a relative adverb, as you say, shouldn't it be the restrictive instead in this case?

In an extreme case where...

Re: where

Grammar Geek — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:48:08 GMT

In this case, I read it as "in which."

In an extreme case, a case in which a town was...

where

Taka — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:44:24 GMT

In an extreme case, where a town was crowded with a whole bunch of clones, there would be practical problems.

About 'where' above, grammatically, is it a relative adverb modifying 'an extreme case', or a conjunction?