ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:01:56 GMT

Yes, the definite article can be used with nouns of both types, "Pour the water onto the tea" – "water" and "tea" are pure uncountable nouns.

Jackson6612
I have been told that the accent of Russian is such that Russians have to struggle a lot in order to speak good English. Is it true?

I don't think so. Maybe we have to struggle a bit to learn to pronounce some sounds, but once grasped, it is not difficult at all.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Jackson6612 — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 21:44:11 GMT

Ant_222
Jackson6612
Let me rephrase it again, even indefinite article the is used with countable nouns or the nouns which are acting as counting nouns.

What's "indefinite article the"?
Sorry, I meant to say definite article. As the meaning of my question stands corrected now, what is your answer?

I have been told that the accent of Russian is such that Russians have to struggle a lot in order to speak good English. Is it true?

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 23:39:24 GMT

Jackson6612
Let me rephrase it again, even indefinite article the is used with countable nouns or the nouns which are acting as counting nouns.

What's "indefinite article the"?

Jackson6612
So it means if some non-countable noun is acting as a countable noun then it has to be an uncountable because there are two main types of nouns: countable and uncountable.

Sure. Isn't it a tautology? Dictionaries describe "happiness" as an uncountable noun, but in specific contexts (like GG's example) it may be used as a countable noun, which I have called playing a "countable" role, or, to be more correct, the role of a countable noun. So, what the dictionaries say doesn't always 100% correspond to reality.

Jackson6612
You said, pour the water onto the tea. Does that mean though water is an uncountable noun but in that particular example it is working as a countable noun?

Actually I used that example to show you a usage of an uncountable noun as an uncountable noun. "The" "defines" "water". It indicates that it is not any water, but that very water that has just been boiled. Water is still uncountable here, although it is "restricted" (specific).

Jackson6612
You said, it denotes a specific instance of that general category. I would have written: ...it denotes a specific type/kind/sort of that general category at some particular time. Would that also mean the same thing?

Well, I think it is a matter of one's Weltanschauung, and personally I prefer "instance" because, as distinct from "type", which, as any unit of classification, is abstract by nature, is real to the same extent as that which it has been derived from:

A is a type/sort of B — here A is not as real as B,

A is an instance of B — A is not less real (material) than B

Jackson6612
In a good detergent, a is standing along a countable noun but detergent in itself is not a countable noun. Then, what does make it a countable noun in that particular sentence?

At last, you have asked a specific question. By "detergent" the speaker didnt' mean the "matter" or "substance" itself, but, rather, a type or sort (or brand) of it. "Tide" is one detergent, and "Surf" is another. In this sense, they are countable.

Jackson6612
Can you, please, provide me some example sentences in which there is no need to use articles with certain countable/uncountable nouns with whom articles would be used in other sentences.

Countable: http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhyNoArticleHere/ggjmr/post.htm

As for uncountable, you have already seen them: "Water boils at 100 centigrades (at the "standard" atmospheric pressure)" — here "water" refers to the verty substance, and the sentence is true for all water in the world.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Jackson6612 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:36:54 GMT

Ant_222
Jackson6612
Ant, you mean that even article the is used with countable nouns or the nouns which are acting as countable nouns.

Yes, but it can be used with uncountable nouns as well. Countable (along the lines of GG's example): "The happiness that he had now was something he had never experiences before".

Uncountable: "Boil a litre of water, put 25 g of tea into an earthenware pot, pour the water onto the tea".

Jackson6612
And would you please give a short explanation of the underlined part

When you specify the properties of something referred to by a noun that usually has an abstract, categorical or very general meaning, that automatically changes the meaning of it so that it denotes a specific instance of that general category. For example, in GG's sentence, instead of the general happiness you have a specific happiness, experienced by a specific person.

Hi Ant,

In one of the last posts you said: What I wanted to say is, whenever the indefinite article is used, the following noun is either countable or plays a "countable" role.

Question 1:
Emphasis is on the whenever. This is the same thing I said above. Let me rephrase it again, even indefinite article the is used with countable nouns or the nouns which are acting as counting nouns. So it means if some non-countable noun is acting as a countable noun then it has to be an uncountable because there are two main types of nouns: countable and uncountable. You said, pour the water onto the tea. Does that mean though water is an uncountable noun but in that particular example it is working as a countable noun?

Question 2:
You said, it denotes a specific instance of that general category. I would have written: ...it denotes a specific type/kind/sort of that general category at some particular time. Would that also mean the same thing?

Question 3:
Example: Wash it in hot water with a good detergent...
In a good detergent, a is standing along a countable noun but detergent in itself is not a countable noun. Then, what does make it a countable noun in that particular sentence?

Question 4:
Can you, please, provide me some example sentences in which there is no need to use articles with certain countable/uncountable nouns with whom articles would be used in other sentences.

Thank you for helping so patiently.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Grammar Geek — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:24:00 GMT

I don't know why the m jumped. and see them realized is what I meant to write.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:21:19 GMT

Grammar Geek
She experienced the ecstacy that comes to those who have worked hard to obtain their dreams and seem the realized.

What does this "seem the realized" part mean? Either I don't understand it or you have made a mistake ;)

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 11:18:14 GMT

Jackson6612
Ant, you mean that even article the is used with countable nouns or the nouns which are acting as countable nouns.

Yes, but it can be used with uncountable nouns as well. Countable (along the lines of GG's example): "The happiness that he had now was something he had never experiences before".

Uncountable: "Boil a litre of water, put 25 g of tea into an eathenware pot, pour the water onto the tea".

Jackson6612
And would you please give a short explanation of the underlined part

When you specify the properties of something referred to by a noun that usually has an abstract, categorical or very general meaning, that automatically changes the meaning of it so that it denotes a specific instance of that general category. For example, in GG's sentence, instead of the general happiness you have a specific happiness, experienced by a specific person.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Jackson6612 — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 22:31:10 GMT

Ant_222
GG, your post is just to the point. It's just that I do consider such nouns countable when they're used the way you showed. The very specifying of special properties makes these nouns refer to an instance of happiness or ecstasy, thus making them countable. What I wanted to say is, whenever the indefinite article is used, the following noun is either countable or plays a "countable" role.

Ant, you mean that even article the is used with countable nouns or the nouns which are acting as countable nouns. And would you please give a short explanation of the underlined part. Thank you.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 18:29:08 GMT

GG, your post is just to the point. It's just that I do consider such nouns countable when they're used the way you showed. The very specifying of special properties makes these nouns refer to an instance of happiness or ecstasy, thus making them countable. What I wanted to say is, whenever the indefinite article is used, the following noun is either countable or plays a "countable" role.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Grammar Geek — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:40:09 GMT

This may be too much information, but we do use articles with abstract, non-count nouns to say what type.

He experienced a happiness never before experienced by man. (What sort of happiness? One that was never experienced before.)

She experienced the ecstacy that comes to those who have worked hard to obtain their dreams and see them realized. (What type of ecstacy? The type that...)

You would not say "He had a happiness" or "She experienced an ecstacy," however. These work only because of the additional information saying what sort.

Did that make things worse?

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 11:40:31 GMT

Jackson6612
This is a apple. You mean a apple means one apple. So that means I cannot write: This is a one apple. Because such sentence will be redundant.
Question 1: Am I correct?

Yes. And it should be "an apple".

Jackson6612
I have eaten only a single apple. Here single also means one but I think it's a correct sentence.
Question 2: Why is so?

"Single" is just an adjective and does not posess the power of replacing articles. Such is English grammar: adjecives, whatever they mean, do not interfere with articles. In your example "single" serves as an amphasis (the sentence would still be OK without it), which explains the redundancy. The adjectives "great big" and "tiny little" also use redundancy to emphasize their effect. It is the only explanation I can think of.

Jackson6612
I couldn't come up with any example sentences right now. Please it will be very kind of you if you can provide some sentences yourself.

Well, I don't know what you don't know. So show me what it is.

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Jackson6612 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:52:29 GMT

Ant_222
Jackson6612
Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Only "a" and "an" are restricted to countable nouns.

Jackson6612
If what I'm saying is true then what is the reason for such a compulsion?

For example, their origin ("a" and "an" stands for "one").

Jackson6612
And does it also mean no matter wherever a countable noun comes in a sentence you have to use a article with it?

No. This is a very general question actually. Try posting some sentences the use of articles wherein you don't understand...

This is a apple. You mean a apple means one apple. So that means I cannot write: This is a one apple. Because such sentence will be redundant.
Question 1: Am I correct?

I have eaten only a single apple. Here single also means one but I think it's a correct sentence.
Question 2: Why is so?

I couldn't come up with any example sentences right now. Please it will be very kind of you if you can provide some sentences yourself.

Best wishes,
Jackson

Re: Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Ant_222 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 21:02:18 GMT

Jackson6612
Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Only "a" and "an" are restricted to countable nouns.

Jackson6612
If what I'm saying is true then what is the reason for such a compulsion?

For example, their origin ("a" and "an" stands for "one").

Jackson6612
And does it also mean no matter wherever a countable noun comes in a sentence you have to use a article with it?

No. This is a very general question actually. Try posting some sentences the use of articles wherein you don't understand...

Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns?

Jackson6612 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 20:43:50 GMT

Is it compulsory to use articles, a, an, and the, with only countable nouns? If what I'm saying is true then what is the reason for such a compulsion? And does it also mean no matter wherever a countable noun comes in a sentence you have to use a article with it?