ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Names of different tenses

Raen — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:16:35 GMT

Thank you CB, I truly appreciate your explanation on "infinitives". That's a lot to take in.

I hope when you said basic things you're only referring to "Germanic language", cause English garmmar is difenitely not basic things for me.

Thanks again.

Raen

Re: Names of different tenses

Cool Breeze — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:37:03 GMT

The infinitive is the basic form of a verb. If you don't know a verb and look it up in a dictionary, the dictionary gives you the infinitive, or more precisely the plain/bare present infinitive of the verb in question: speak, know, need etc. The full infinitive has the particle to before it: to speak, to know, to need. In English, the infinitive can never be inflected, which means that you cannot add an ending to it or conjugate it in any way. Examples of present infinitives:

I want to speak English. You must speak English. We will speak English. I had an opportunity to speak English. It's easy to speak English. They made us speak English. You had better speak English.

There are (only) two infinitives in English. Besides the above present infinitive, there is the perfect infinitive, which consists of [to] + have + past participle. It often refers to the past and is uninflected like the present infinitive. Examples of perfect infinitives:

He may have spoken English there. I wouldn't have spoken English. They need not have spoken English.

Both infinitives can be used in the passive voice as well and in this case you indeed have two past participles next to each other (have been + past participle). Examples of the present infinitive in the passive (be + past participle):

English must be spoken here. He wanted to be taken into account. She didn't expect to be seen there.

Examples of the perfect infinitive in the passive:

He may have been seen there. Something should have been done. To have been seen isn't the same as to have been caught.

You can read more about infinitives here.

English infinitives are very simple compared with the infintives of some other languages. You'll soon learn them.

The Germanic languages are a group of closely related languages including English, German, Dutch, Swedish etc. You can read more about them here.

You have a computer and the Internet at your disposal. You should be able to find out about basic things like these on your own.

Re: Names of different tenses

Raen — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 11:47:59 GMT

Thank you CJ and CB.

Wow, so it is definitively wrong, I had no idea. I haven't heard this tense (have had + participle) being used in the real world, I thought it was because situation calling for that use was rare or it's too old-fashioned for modern English. Thank you for clearning that up for me.

By the way, you referred the tense as "perfect infinitive". Is perfect infinitive another name for both past and simple perfect tense? I"m studying the section of "participles" in the grammar book, and "finitive" is presented in this way with variations (phrase, noun, etc...): to + V

Would you please comment on that? What's "infinitive"?

Also, when you said "Germanic" you're not referring to "German language", are you?

thanks

Raen

Re: Names of different tenses

Cool Breeze — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:58:41 GMT

Raen
He would have had completed the task if he had asked for help before he left work -- would have had completed used for had asked (past perfect) that happens before left (simple past)

Is it false then? "would have + (past perfect)" doesn't exist?

These terms may not be the same everywhere but the basic grammar of the language is the same all over the Anglo-Saxon world! Would have had completed is always wrong. Would is a defective/modal auxiliary and only an infinitive is possible after these auxiliaries. In this case the perfect infinitive must be used. There are two theoretical alternatives using your verbs. Either would have completed or would have had. All other combinations are wrong. The perfect infinitive consists of have + past participle. It is impossible to have another past participle right after a perfect infinitive. That is impossible in all Germanic languages, I believe.

Re: Names of different tenses

CalifJim — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:23:08 GMT

Here are some Present - Past pairs:

Simple present - Simple past [He takes. He took.]

Present progressive - Past progressive [He is taking. He was taking.]

Present perfect - Past perfect [He has taken. He had taken.]

Present perfect progressive - Past perfect progressive [He has been taking. He had been taking.]

(Simple) Future (of the Present) (will) - ( Simple) Future of the Past (would) [He will take. He would take.]

Future (of the Present) progressive - Future (of the Past) progressive [He will be taking. He would be taking.]

Future (of the Present) perfect - Future (of the Past) perfect [He will have taken. He would have taken.]

Future (of the Present) perfect progressive - Future (of the Past) perfect progressive [He will have been taking. He would have been taking.]

(Future of the Past -- (with would)-- is also called "Conditional".)

(Progressive is also called Continuous.)

Caution: Not all discussions of tense use the same names for the tenses.

Re: Names of different tenses

Raen — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:06:59 GMT

Thank you so much CB, I'm taking them all in now. But,

In the one sentence you crossed out the word "had", I was taught it had to be present to differentiate the order of occuraces or actions taken place in a sentence that has more than 1 clause. Let me expand on it by ways of examples:

He has taken the job as we speak. -- has taken (perfect tense) happens before speak (simple present)

He had taken the job before he moved here -- had taken (past perfect) happens before moved (simple past)

and in conditionals (I'm learning now that's what it's called):

He would have completed the task if he asked for help -- would have completed (perfect conditional) used for asked (simple past)

and this is what I was taught that's tricky,

He would have had completed the task if he had asked for help before he left work -- would have had completed used for had asked (past perfect) that happens before left (simple past)

Is it false then? "would have + (past perfect)" doesn't exist?

Thank you.

Raen

Re: Names of different tenses

Cool Breeze — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:34:54 GMT

I am taking her to the movie. continuous / progressive present or present continuous / progressive

He will be working for your father's law firm. future continuous / progressive

I took the test and passed! simple past

She has taken the medicine for her cold. [present] perfect

She had taken the job before she moved here. past perfect / pluperfect

I have been thinking about going abroad for higher education.[present] perfect continuous / continuous [present] perfect

He had been living in France before he was caught. continuous past perfect /continuous pluperfect

It would have cost me a fortune to buy that coat. perfect conditional / in some countries also called the second conditional

He would have ~~had~~ completed the task if he had asked for help. same as the one above

It would have been better if we had gone. same as the one above (better is an adjective and as such has nothing to do with tenses!)

Terminology varies from country to country a little but I think you'll be all right with these names.

Names of different tenses

Raen — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:54:20 GMT

if there are any. I believe there are, and saw them mentioned in different posts on the forum although didn't pay attention to them. The grammar book I'm studying all lump them up into one catagory: helping verbs. But I'd like to know if most people have and use names for the different types of tenses. Here are the sample sentences I wish to know the names of the tenses they are of:

I am taking her to the movie.

He will be working for your father's law firm.

I took the test and passed!

She has taken the medicine for her cold.

She had taken the job before she moved here.

I have been thinking about going abroad for higher education.

He had been living in France before he was caught.

It would have cost me a fortune to buy that coat.

He would have had completed the task if he had asked for help.

It would have been better if we had gone.

I learned the names of these tenses in my own language, but I don't know the English name for each tense(except past tense) . Thanks for anyone's help.

Raen