ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Goodman — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 04:38:25 GMT

Grammar Geek

Raen

A: A minute when Terri announced her wedding plans passed in complete silence.

If this is the book's answer, then please throw the book away.

As I read the original, it should be something like "After a minute of complete silence, Terri announced her wedding plans."

Your version sounds like Terri made the announcement, and then there was silence.

The book's answer is garbage.

I agree, that book should be used to light up the fireplace. There are good books and plenty of bad ones.
The books are only as good as the people who have written them.

On that note, my read to the original sentence has past perfect ringing in my ear.

A minute of complete silence had passed when Terry announced her wedding plan.

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Yoong Liat — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 04:12:45 GMT

Hi Raen

Thanks Mister,

Grammar Geek
The "then" in the original sentence is oddly placed. If it were "Then she announced ..." it would be clear that the announcement followed the minute.

Grammar Geek is not Mister.

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Raen — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:12:35 GMT

Thanks Mister,

Grammar Geek
The "then" in the original sentence is oddly placed. If it were "Then she announced ..." it would be clear that the announcement followed the minute.

In many of the sentences combining practices the book uses "then" to prompt students to use the relative pronoun "when" and "there" for "where", etc...to combine 2 independent clauses into one sentence. In this case, I am almost 100% sure "then" doesn't mean "afterwards", rather it's referring to the now infamous "A minute" therefore the rigid answer of "A minute when Terri.......". It was truly a annoying experience to find out the answer, after all the mind-boggling grammar points and head-scratching perplexing rules that one had to go thru and was almost driven to the edge of insanity, one would expect the author to come up with a better and more convincing answer than that. Oh well :(

Thanks all

Raen

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Grammar Geek — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:57:07 GMT

It seems more "real world" to assume a minute of shocked silence followed Terri's announcement than that any group of people would happen to be silent for a minute and then Terri would choose that moment to reveal her news. On the other hand, maybe Terri said "Everyone! I have something important to say," and then the entire group of exptectant faces were turned toward her, and wanted to milk her moment in the spotlight, she waited for a full minute before saying, "I'm getting married!"

The "then" in the original sentence is oddly placed. If it were "Then she announced ..." it would be clear that the announcement followed the minute.

I think you can move way beyond "starting to suspect" that the author isn't competent into absolute certainty.

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

CalifJim — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:08:32 GMT

Raen
but lucky me, I have you guys.

You're too kind.

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Raen — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:57:35 GMT

CalifJim
I agree. Total nonsense. You have my sympathy, having to deal with such an insane book. I wonder what pathetically incompetent author wrote it.

It's DailyGrammar online. I have asked a couple of times on the forum if anyone has used this site before and what they thought of the site. But I'm starting to think the author may not be qualified as a true expert in English Grammar..but lucky me, I have you guys. I only read it because I have to. Oh well, such is life..as least for me.

Raen

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Raen — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 19:50:17 GMT

Grammar Geek

If this is the book's answer, then please throw the book away.

Trust me, I have had to urge to do that over a dozen times now, but it's THE book I have to read.

Grammar Geek

As I read the original, it should be something like "After a minute of complete silence, Terri announced her wedding plans."

Your version sounds like Terri made the announcement, and then there was silence.

Yes, that's how I interpreted it. Wrong, it seems?

Raen

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

CalifJim — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:14:52 GMT

Raen
It seems to me the official answer is a strict product of the rules and does not sound natural to me.

I agree. Total nonsense. You have my sympathy, having to deal with such an insane book. I wonder what pathetically incompetent author wrote it.

The only logical combinations I can come up with are

A minute passed in complete silence [when/after] Terri announced her wedding plans.

Terri announced her wedding plans after a minute passed in complete silence.

And there is no relative clause here.

Re: Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Grammar Geek — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:38:57 GMT

Raen

A: A minute when Terri announced her wedding plans passed in complete silence.

If this is the book's answer, then please throw the book away.

As I read the original, it should be something like "After a minute of complete silence, Terri announced her wedding plans."

Your version sounds like Terri made the announcement, and then there was silence.

The book's answer is garbage.

Sentence combining using dependent(relative) clause

Raen — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:14:09 GMT

Here is a practice:

Q: A minute passed in complete silence. Terri announced her wedding plans then.

I wrote: A minute passed in complete silence when Terri announced her wedding plans.

A: A minute when Terri announced her wedding plans passed in complete silence.

Grammar rules say: The adjective clause is used to modify a noun or a pronoun. It will begin with a relative pronoun (who, whose, whom, which, and that) or a subordinate conjunction (when and where). Those are the only words that can be used to introduce an adjective clause. The introductory word will always rename the word that it follows and modifies except when used with a preposition which will come between the introductory word and the word it renames.

It seems to me the official answer is a strict product of the rules and does not sound natural to me. If "when Terri announced her wedding plans" is to highlight/modify "minute" (as the grammar rule indicates), shouldn't the article "A" be a definite "The" specifying the time in a period of ONE MINUTE when the wedding plans were announced?

I just thought the length of time (a minute) was more of a figurative speech when the silence occured as a result of Terri's announcing her wedding plans not the precise minute that it took to announce her wedding plans. Any thoughts? Thanks a lot.

Raen