ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: have happen

CalifJim — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 21:39:14 GMT

Fandorin
Could we use "get" instead of "have" without changing the constructions?

No.

Re: have happen

Fandorin — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:25:27 GMT

Could we use "get" instead of "have" without changing the constructions?

Re: have happen

CalifJim — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:15:43 GMT

It's not a commonly used pattern, but I don't see why it should be considered ungrammatical. It seems to me that you can't have the object between have and the verb (and this pattern doesn't use a past participle) if it is represented by the fronted question word.

Who do want to have drive us to the hospital? Bill or George?

Which bell do you want to have ring to signal an error? The high-pitched one?

Who does Lucy want to have appear first in the talent show? Jack or Jane?

What does the boss want to have separate the columns of print? Just blank space or a vertical line?

What do you want to have pop out of the box for this gag gift? A clown or a snake?

What do you want to have stand for the furniture in this diagram of the room? Some X's or squares?

Who does she prefer to have introduce the speakers at the conference?

What do you expect to have grow out of this idea of yours? A newspaper article? A novel?

______

And with the past participle the pattern is as common as mud:

What do you want to have fixed?

What do you want to have done?

What do you want to have saved for later?

Re: have happen

Cool Breeze — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:58:35 GMT

CalifJim
This is what I want to have happen. I want to have what happen? What do I want to have happen? I want to have it happen. I want to have this happen. This is what I want to have happen.
Following your lead, objects in blue.

This is an interesting point. In Helsinki English there must be an object between have and the past participle. In other words the structures in red are not correct. I wonder what people say in British English. Nona, MrP and others?

Re: have happen

Fandorin — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:39:51 GMT

I'm much obliged to you, CalifJim. Thank you.

Re: have happen

CalifJim — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:33:25 GMT

Is there essential difference between "Focus on what you want to have happen" and "Focus on what you want to happen" ? There's a difference, but not a very strong difference.

If yes, is it an expression of strong desire? In a way, yes, I suppose, because the idea of controlling your actions in an effort to reach your goal is involved.

What you want to happen is your wish. It may happen; it may not happen. You accept fate.

What you want to have happen is your goal. You may succeed in causing it to happen; you may fail. You attempt to control what happens.

On the other hand, what you want to have happen can be taken to be, as you say, your very strong wish or hope. You wish you could influence the world and the people in it so that you get what you want. In this interpretation, you put yourself in a more dependent role. You're depending on others to arrange things so that you get what you want. The control is indirect or perhaps even missing.

______

The versions with the past participle are simply the passive variant of the same structure:

I'm going to have the plumber fix the pipes. (Active)

I'm going to have the pipes fixed by a plumber. (Passive -- with agent)

I'm going to have the pipes fixed. (Agentless passive)

Re: have happen

Fandorin — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:14:56 GMT

CalifJim
Fandorin
What kind of that?
I don't understand this incomplete question, but I guess you want an explanation of the use of have. Yes, It's exactly the point I'm interested in, sorry for non-complete question.
It's "causative have". The idea is that you can control what happens. You manage your activities so that a particular event will happen or so that a particular goal will be accomplished. You focus (concentrate your efforts) on the goal that you want to cause to happen.
Other paraphrases: I want to have it (the world / life) so that ... / I want to arrange it (the world / life) so that ... / I want it (the world / life) to arrange itself so that ...
I want to have the children sing the national anthem. This is what I want to have happen.
I want to have Mary help me to do my homework. This is what I want to have happen.
I want to have George stop smoking. This is what I want to have happen.
CJ

What an excitement! I have never seen it before! I've happened to occur Construction like "have + object + past participle".

"I have my watch repaired". It means someone has repaired my watch for me, doesn't it?

I cannot comprehend the difference between.

"have + object + past participle" Is it used like a passive? " I had my car checked".

"have + object + bare infinitive" Is it used like an active? " I had Gregory do his job".

Is there essential difference between "Focus on what you want to have happen" and "Focus on what you want to happen" ? If yes, is it an expression of a strong desire?

Re: have happen

CalifJim — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:40:33 GMT

This is what I want to have happen. I want to have what happen? What do I want to have happen? I want to have it happen. I want to have this happen. This is what I want to have happen.

Following your lead, objects in blue.

Re: have happen

Cool Breeze — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:30:17 GMT

CalifJim

I want to have the children sing the national anthem. This is what I want to have happen.
I want to have Mary help me to do my homework. This is what I want to have happen.
I want to have George stop smoking. This is what I want to have happen.

Hi Jim

Without an object, I consider the structure in red incorrect.

Re: have happen

CalifJim — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:23:42 GMT

Fandorin
What kind of that?

I don't understand this incomplete question, but I guess you want an explanation of the use of have.

It's "causative have". The idea is that you can control what happens. You manage your activities so that a particular event will happen or so that a particular goal will be accomplished. You focus (concentrate your efforts) on the goal that you want to cause to happen.

Other paraphrases: I want to have it (the world / life) so that ... / I want to arrange it (the world / life) so that ... / I want it (the world / life) to arrange itself so that ...

I want to have the children sing the national anthem. This is what I want to have happen.

I want to have Mary help me to do my homework. This is what I want to have happen.

I want to have George stop smoking. This is what I want to have happen.

Re: have happen

Fandorin — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:15:03 GMT

I read it in the article. It also seems strange to me. Thank you, Cool Breeze.

Re: have happen

Cool Breeze — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:12:41 GMT

Fandorin
"Focus on what you want to have happen."
What kind of that? I cannot understand it completely.

No one can, it's incorrect. It should be Focus on what you want to happen.

have happen

Fandorin — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:59:43 GMT

"Focus on what you want to have happen."

What kind of that? I cannot understand it completely.

Thanks in advance.