ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Latin or German? Which languages has influenced English more?

Mister Micawber — Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:45:53 GMT

Which conjures up the thought of how much Chinese will influence English (or vice versa) in this millenium.

Re: Latin or German? Which languages has influenced English more?

MrPedantic — Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:58:38 GMT

In addition to CJ's comments, there is also the question of modern scientific and technical vocabulary, most of which derives directly from Greek and Latin. This makes up a very large proportion of the 'English language', but is rarely used by most speakers.

Then you have the problem that Latin, Greek, and the Germanic languages belong to the same linguistic family. Thus 'Vater' in German is related to 'pater' in Latin, and both are related to English 'father'. It's an incestuous business...

Probably the most you can say is that German and Latin have each had more 'influence' on modern English than Chinese.

MrP

Re: Latin or German? Which languages has influenced English more?

CalifJim — Thu, 09 Dec 2004 07:38:34 GMT

You and your classmate don't seem to have any standard by which both of you agree to measure influence. Will it be the number of words related to each? Will it be the most frequently used words? The most frequently used words in everyday conversation? The most frequently used words in formal writing? In literature? Will your standard not have anything to do with word counts? Will you measure influence by similarity of syntax and morphology? Which syntactic structures will you measure? Phrasal verbs? Verb position within the sentence? The system of verb tenses?

I don't think it will be possible ever to reach an agreement on all these and hundreds of other issues. There is no objective standard of what "influence" consists of in this context.

The tense system, the modal verb system, and the phrasal verbs all point to Germanic elements as the infrastructure of English. Most of our everyday words are related to German. Nevertheless, we have more words related to the Romance languages, originally borrowed through French, than words with Germanic roots.

I suppose, in the absence of any rigorous standards and accurate data to answer the question, I personally would argue that German did not, strictly speaking, influence English, because English is the natural historic outgrowth of a branch of German itself. We don't normally use the word "influence" in that sense. If English already existed apart from German and then came in contact with German and absorbed some of its characteristics, then I might use the word "influence". I would say that French, as a superposition of French vocabulary upon a Germanic substructure, fulfills the role of "influence" much better. [Direct borrowings from Latin (not through French) are fewer and mostly related to church terminology.]

California Jim

Latin or German? Which languages has influenced English more?

Guest — Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:56:05 GMT

My classmate and I got into an argument over which language influenced English more as it's evolved. My classmate said German on a basis, of well, English is categorized as a Germanic Language. However, I told him that Latin has had a huge influence on the English language; in fact, 40% of the language comes from French alone. But he refused to agree with me. So, my question is: Which language has influenced English more? Latin (and languages influenced by Latin) or German (and languages influenced by German)?

~Much thanks.~