http://www.englishforums.com/English/EslGeneralEnglishGrammar-Questions/Forum12.htmAsk your questions on grammar and get your sentence checked. We answer lots of different types of general English grammar questions here.enXMOD (Build: 3598.39794)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#945348Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:49:13 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:945348Anonymous0http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#945348http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-945348.xmlWell, despite the argument about what should or not not be posted here and who is "right", I discovered just the right feedback lanuage I needed to help a sudent gain a much better understanding of when it is appropirate to use "its" and when it is preferable to use "their." I think that the common theme in this area is to help others learn as much as possible about the topic and to learn all sides of the discussion.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#272825Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:272825Mike in Japan1http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#272825http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-272825.xml'Board' is a collective noun. It is my understanding that in British English (or International English, as I like to call it), collective nouns can be either singular or plural. Collective nouns Cheershttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#272787Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:272787Anonymous2http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#272787http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-272787.xmlMike In Japan wrote: In that case 'The board expect to meet their goals' But it still doesn't sound right to me. Should it be " the board" expect s to meet....."? After all, the "board" is still a singular unit, although it's made up with members. Just my opinion...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#272737Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:272737Schetin3http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#272737http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-272737.xml...moreover, 'it's' as a contraction of 'it has' lacks two letters.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#56362Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:56362Mister Micawber4http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#56362http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-56362.xmlIf I understand your question aright: In the case of " it's " (the contraction for 'it is') the apostrophe represents the elision of one letter, the 'i' of 'is'. In the case of the possessive, no letter is replaced; it is a different function of the apostrophe. In 'the children's toys', 'the child's toys', 'the boy's toys', and 'the boys' toys', no letter has gone missing; the apostrophe is just a possessive marker. Does this answer your question?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#56339Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:56339Guest5http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#56339http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-56339.xmlI've been following this forum page for a short time now..I've noticed that when you write about ownership(possession), no comment is made about the history of where the apostrophe should go..whether it be e.g. ...'s or s'...the apostrophe for ownership if it is.. 's...replaces one letter...and if it is ...s' ..it is relacing two letters...In all the books I have read....NONE of those printed in the last 15yrs explain WHY..http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#15976Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:15976hitchhiker6http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#15976http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-15976.xmlI suppose I was surprised that no-one had corrected two such errors on a site devoted to the English language in a thread specifically about it's. - Forums develop over time and are largely useful in retrospect. They have a right to expect that posts sent by moderators are correct. - Mistakes are made all the time and discussion generally eliminates them as is the case here! Why would someone go to the trouble to pretend to quote an authority to sustain a view which is quite incorrect? - I have no idea why that 'Guest' would post an inaccurate version of the text; nicely noticed though. You must approach any forum / debate / discussion with the realisation that everybody is learning and rarely does one...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#15954Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:15954trellis7http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/3/bwmr/Post.htm#15954http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-15954.xmlHello Paul, I agree with you that the moderators here should be more careful with their posts. Thousands of people come to this site and read the old posts looking for help. They have a right to expect that posts sent by moderators are correct. Please let me know if you ever see any errors in my posts and I will edit them.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#15951Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:15951Paul Doherty8http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#15951http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-15951.xmlHello Ryan, and thanks. Sure, typos aren't a problem, but the cumulative effect would have been to confuse anyone who was looking to clarify their understanding of its and it's . > This is a place to talk about stuff. It is not a reference text. Of course. I suppose I was surprised that no-one had corrected two such errors on a site devoted to the English language in a thread specifically about it's .http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#15878Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:15878ryan smith9http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#15878http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-15878.xmlWelcome to the discussion forums. Re: Guest comments While guests are always welcome, arguing with them is usually futile: they rarely reply. Sure, someone could have stated for the record that the Guest above was mistaken, but...er...wait, you just did. Thanks! Re: Moderator mistake (it's for its) How many times have I typed their for there or by for buy? More than I'd like to admit. I usually catch the error, however, sometimes I'm not so lucky. There is no spelling or grammar check here. Notice that I said, "welcome to the discussion forums," above. This is a place to talk about stuff. It is not a reference text. Welcome. Keep posting, be critical. Just be sure of what you are being critical of.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#15865Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:15865Paul Doherty10http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#15865http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-15865.xmlWell, I've just joined. This is a bit strange. The possessive of it is without question its , no apostrophe. Mine, yours, his, hers, its, ours, theirs , no apostrophe in any of them. It's invariably means it is or it has , and there is no such word as its' . All basic English grammar. And yet, someone says that Actually, according to websters dictionary its and it's are the possive form of it. Usage Note: Its is the possessive form of the pronoun it and is correctly written with or without an apostrophe. It should not be confused with the contraction it's (for it is or it has), which should always have an apostrophe. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#14716Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:14716goggij211http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#14716http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-14716.xmlThe main issue here is that board is a collective noun. The determination of their vs. its depends on what you are referring to. If you are referring to the board as a whole, "its" is correct. However, if you are referring to individual members of the board "their" is correct. In this case their is most appropriate. A board does not "expect," it is implicit that the members of the board expect. Examples "The board feels their racially diverse leadership is responsible for its success." "The board, determines its budget is fiscally sound," "The board supports its actions in South Africa," "The board denies allegation of its involvement in White Water."http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#14710Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:14710Guest12http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#14710http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-14710.xmlAn easy way to think of this, which also helped me in spanish with verbs Estar and Ser is to think of it with 'family' would you say: My family is crazy or My family are craz and of course, it's is. that collective noun thing is a mess lolhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12768Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:12768whl62613http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12768http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-12768.xmlIf my memory serves me right The audience gives/give .... , ( both are acceptable ) But Americans tend to use it as a collective noun The audience gives And I agree that it is better to put ( members ) to clear the messhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12762Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:12762Mike in Japan14http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12762http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-12762.xmlI would say 'the audience gives its or 'the audience members give their'http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12756Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:12756Guest15http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12756http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-12756.xmleg The audience give their standing ovation everytime when an onstage performance is finished. this should be: The audience gives their......http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12755Sun, 08 Feb 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:12755Guest16http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/2/bwmr/Post.htm#12755http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-12755.xmlActually, according to websters dictionary its and it's are the possive form of it. Usage Note: Its is the possessive form of the pronoun it and is correctly written with or without an apostrophe. It should not be confused with the contraction it's (for it is or it has), which should always have an apostrophe. Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#9325Fri, 08 May 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:9325Arthur17http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#9325http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-9325.xmlYou are right its shows possession just like you said. The word it's is a contraction of it is. Putting a appostrophe at the end of the word will be incorrect.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7611Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7611whl62618http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7611http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7611.xmlAnother similar term ' audience ' eg The audience give their standing ovation everytime when an onstage performance is finished.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7603Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7603Mike in Japan19http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7603http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7603.xmlIn that case 'The board expect to meet their goals' But it still doesn't sound right to me.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7599Sun, 08 Mar 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7599whl62620http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7599http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7599.xmlI think ' board ' or ' board members ' are acceptable since board means a group of people.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7582Fri, 08 May 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7582Mike in Japan21http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7582http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7582.xmlSorry Maj. Try; The board members expect to meet their goalshttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7561Fri, 08 May 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7561maj22http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7561http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7561.xmlWhat about " The board expects to meet their goals" ?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7540Fri, 08 May 2009 07:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7540Woodward23http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7540http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7540.xmlAs whl626 said, no apostrophe after "its" since it is already in possessive form.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7500Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7500whl62624http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htm#7500http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7500.xml" its " is already a possesive pronoun. There is no " its' " for whatever reason, I guess.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htmThu, 08 Jan 2009 08:45:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:7429Guest25http://www.englishforums.com/English/AnotherQuestionOnIts/bwmr/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-7429.xmlCan the apostrophe be used to show possession ofa subject that is a proper noun or any noun. Example- The Board expects to meet its' goals.