http://www.englishforums.com/English/EslGeneralEnglishGrammar-Questions/Forum12.htmAsk your questions on grammar and get your sentence checked. We answer lots of different types of general English grammar questions here.enXMOD (Build: 3598.39794)http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91440Fri, 08 May 2009 15:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91440PASTEL0http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91440http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91440.xmlMrP PS: You can also apply MrPedantic's Second Law of Who/Whom: 'If a Who/Whom thread runs to a second page, both Who and Whom are possible.' ======================================================= MrP, you are a hilarious gentleman! I hope this is the botom line. Or we'll have to go back to the topic of "Who is it?" 1- It's I. 2- It's me. Thanks for all the replies. Pastelhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91439Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91439PASTEL1http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91439http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91439.xmlHi haoqide, Maybe Satan blinded you last night. (G) Your post is precious and there are times when "whom" and "who" are interchangeable. In my example sentence, I would doubt that "whom" works there. 1-Who did you call last night? 2-Whom did you call last night? Both are said to be correct. Some insist on using 2 for academic purpose and some consider it non-sense at all in daily conversation. I'd say number one.http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91393Fri, 08 May 2009 15:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91393woodcutter2http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91393http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91393.xmlIt's just my opinion perhaps, but I think that anybody using "whom" marks themselves as a fool. The word is just not part of everyday language anymore, and sounds pompous even when employed in a formal context.http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91386Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91386MrPedantic3http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/2/bbjlx/Post.htm#91386http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91386.xmlHello Pastel I too would say that 'who' is correct. This is not a case of using 'who' where you might also use 'whom', fortunately. As others have said, 'who' is the subject of its (incomplete) clause. Perhaps the confusion arises because 'who (has done wrong)' is 'what you know'; so the 'who' clause as a whole is a kind of object. MrP PS: You can also apply MrPedantic's Second Law of Who/Whom: 'If a Who/Whom thread runs to a second page, both Who and Whom are possible.'http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91372Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91372just the truth4http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91372http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91372.xmlIn modern English, 'who' works as both a subject and an object. ++++++++++++++++ http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/1994_01_24_thenewrepublic.html The first story was a nonpartisan analysis of supposed pronoun case errors made by the two candidates in the 1992 US presidential election. George Bush had recently adopted the slogan "Who do you trust?," alienating schoolteachers across the nation who noted that is a subject pronoun and the question is asking about the object of . One would say , not , and so the question word should be , not . In reply, one might point out that the distinction is a relic of the English case system, abandoned by nouns centuries ago and found today only among pronouns in distinctions...http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91359Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91359CalifJim5http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91359http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91359.xmlTo add another vote: I know (the person) who (has done wrong to you), but not why. "whom" is incorrect in both formal and informal styles. CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91293Fri, 08 May 2009 15:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91293haoqide6http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91293http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91293.xmlOuch...now that I look at it...you're right! OOPS!!!!! "You know who" IS a shortened form of "you know who did it". Man, maybe I shouldn't be posting here...ouch.http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91274Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91274nona the brit7http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91274http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91274.xmlWhom is a funny word. Often officially 'correct' but very rarely actually used by native speakers. I would choose 'who' in this example.http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91267Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91267khoff8http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91267http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91267.xmlPastel - I agree with your original post. I'm sorry, haoqide, but but I just can't imagine saying "you know whom but you don't know why." I think the reason is that "you know who" is a shortened version of "you know who did it." You wouldn't say, "you know him did it," would you? Let's see what the moderator says.http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91265Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91265haoqide9http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91265http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91265.xmlhehe, yep! It sounds really weird. You're going to run into a lot of sitations at some point where you don't know which one to choose, even if you seperate the sentence into its clauses. Those will be the fun ones! If you want to speak the most correct English, you'll need to use one, but the other one is the one that sounds good. For example, this one happened to me in high school: Me: "Hello?" My English teacher: "Hi, is Chris there?" Me: "This is him." My English teacher: "This is Mrs. Jones." Me: "Uh, I mean this is HE." My English teacher: HAHAHAHA. In that situation, "this is he" is the correct way of doing it. Why, you ask? Because "this" is not a subjective pronoun. It's a demonstrative pronoun, so...http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91258Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91258PASTEL10http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91258http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91258.xmlHi! Haoqide, That helps! I can't disagree any more that "You know he" sounds horrible. Really?! Do you think the usage of who is very horrible too?http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91248Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91248haoqide11http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htm#91248http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91248.xmlHey, Pastel! The correct grammar for that sentence would be, "You know whom, but you don't know why." The reason "whom" is correct is that it's the object of the first clause in the sentence. The best way that I can think of to decide whether to use "who" or "whom" is to do it this way... Divide the sentence into the 2 different clauses. In this example, it would be like this: "You know who/whom" and the other clause is "You don't know why." Okay, now that you know what the 2 clauses are, you can decide which word fits in the first clause. I take the sentence and substitute the word "he" for "who" and "him" for "whom" in order to get the right answer. SO... "You know he." - That sounds HORRIBLE. He is a subjective...http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htmFri, 08 May 2009 15:50:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:91236PASTEL12http://www.englishforums.com/English/YouWhy/bbjlx/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments12-91236.xmlYou're angry, hurt, confused and up for revenge--someone has done wrong to you. You know who but you don't know why. I don't know how to explain this clearly to learners. I'm not sure I'm totally correct. Thus, I'd be appreciated if you are willing to help with this one. I have seen many posts or arguement here and there about and over the usage of "whom" and "who." You may have your point of view and it's all precious and valued. I think "you know who" is the most correct way to say and the only way out. I take "who" as somewhat a relative pronoun that specifies someone who has done wrong to you. "You know who has done wrong to you and you don't know why." No, there is no room for whom. What do you think? ...