ESL General English Grammar Questions

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

abbie1948 — Mon, 02 May 2005 11:16:01 GMT

Succinctly put, Mr. P

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

MrPedantic — Mon, 02 May 2005 07:29:09 GMT

Since a comparison is being made (he couldn't literally be a hothouse plant), I would say 'sound like'.

Only my 2p, though.

MrP

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

nayeem19 — Mon, 02 May 2005 05:57:16 GMT

so , is it sound or sound like ?

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

nayeem19 — Mon, 02 May 2005 05:55:49 GMT

Ok . If one sentence is not enough to understand , here's the paragraph :

" Summarising Oakeshott in this way is bound to make him sound a hothouse English plant . His mannerist , almost dandyish , style has led serious people to make this same misjudgement .
Whether or not you end up accepting Oakeshott's vision of a civilised , clubbable society as
achievable or even attractive , Mr Franco's fine introduction shows , on te contrary , what a tough and wily thinker he was . "

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

paco2004 — Sun, 01 May 2005 23:36:14 GMT

Oh I see! Everywhere in Madras must be like in an English hothouse! They would need rather coldhouses to grow English plants.

paco

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

MrPedantic — Sun, 01 May 2005 23:28:59 GMT

I suppose some plants that grow in an English hothouse might grow in the wild in Madras!

MrP

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

paco2004 — Sun, 01 May 2005 23:09:56 GMT

I found a quote in OED; "1836 Lett. fr. Madras (1843) 26 English hothouse flowers, growing wild."
If English hothouse flowers easily grow wild, "an English hothouse flower" wouldn't work as a metaphor of a weak person.

paco

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

MrPedantic — Sun, 01 May 2005 22:47:25 GMT

Yes, I think so: 'one will think of him as if he were a hothouse flower'.

I find 'hothouse plant' odd, in this comparison. It's usually 'hothouse flower'.

MrP

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

paco2004 — Sun, 01 May 2005 22:28:24 GMT

Aha.. Now I can get vaguely what the sentence is intended to mean.

If Oakeshott's personality is summarized in this way, one will inevitably take him as if he were a person like a hothouse plant.

Is it right?

paco

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

MrPedantic — Sun, 01 May 2005 22:07:46 GMT

'Sounds like a hothouse plant': I took it to mean that Oakeshott could easily sound rather 'precious' or 'effete' (in terms of his ideas or style) from the 'summary' that precedes this extract.

MrP

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

pieanne — Sun, 01 May 2005 15:23:41 GMT

A wild guess:
a hothouse plant: a rare and wonderful flower that has to be taken care of, fragile, fearing cold temp's.
an English hothouse plant: a luscious English belle?
Some wouldn't mind listening to her chest, bu no wonder you have never tried, Abbie...

Re: Sound or sound like ?/ adjective order

abbie1948 — Sun, 01 May 2005 11:39:12 GMT

Hi Jim,

Can't we allow this construction as a literary device forming a parallel with "appear", "seem", and perhaps others, or do you feel that these, too, always require "like"?

It makes him seem an idiot. (?)
It makes him appear a fool. (?)

On reflection I think you are correct here, though I still find that this particulr sentence sounds strange. Maybe it is something to do with the adjectives; too many? not enough? wrong order?

"It makes him sound an idiot."

hothouse English plant

I was questioning the adjective order here, nayeem. I think it should be "English hothouse plant", though I still don't know quite what that is. I am familiar with English plants, and with hothouse plants, but have been unable to find a definition for or description of a "hothouse English plant".

Re: Sound or sound like ?

nayeem19 — Sun, 01 May 2005 10:16:05 GMT

All my life I've hearing " sounds like " . Obviousl , I was a bit surprised to see
that type of sentence construction in the Economist magazine . I thought it
was typical British English then .

Should I presume that both sounds like and sound like are acceptable in the sentence given before ?
Oakeshott was a conservative British philosopher . A hothouse English plant is a plant which grows very quickly inside the hothouse .

The hothouse children are those children who were protected by their rich parents since their birth from the harsh realities of life .

Re: Sound or sound like ?

CalifJim — Sun, 01 May 2005 06:16:13 GMT

Can't we allow this construction as a literary device forming a parallel with "appear", "seem", and perhaps others, or do you feel that these, too, always require "like"?

It makes him seem an idiot. (?)
It makes him appear a fool. (?)

CJ

Re: Sound or sound like ?

abbie1948 — Sun, 01 May 2005 02:53:10 GMT

Have you ever listened to the chest of a hothouse English plant Mr. P. (whatever is a "hothouse English plant??) It is indeed a very strange experience.