http://www.englishforums.com/English/EnglishAudioSpeechPronunciation/Forum22.htmBritish, American, Scottish accent or using super-fantastic-high-tech software, we'll help you with pronunciation.enXMOD (Build: 3616.28671)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#887076Fri, 04 Sep 2009 21:57:47 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:887076CalifJim0http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#887076http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-887076.xmlall final stops in AmE are unreleased? To varying degrees, yes. t most of all is unreleased when utterance final. Then p , k , d , b , and g in approximately that order. The nasals are not stops, so don't worry about those. You can pronounce them fully. As to combinations, I would release the final consonants, but with little or no aspiration. ( gasp, act , etc.) CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#886322Fri, 04 Sep 2009 10:15:33 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:886322iLrrr-n1http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#886322http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-886322.xmlSo, I'm I to understand that all final stops in AmE are unreleased? /p/, /t/, /k/, as in nap, hat, hack? and their voiced counterparts /b/, /d/, /g/, as in nab, had, hag? And let's not forget the nasals, /n/, /m/, /ng/, pen, gem, king? How about if they are preceded by another consonant sound, as in gasp, camp, help, act, aft, walked, raised, bathed, etc.?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#397208Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:397208CalifJim2http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#397208http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-397208.xml<<"higher" or "lower" on the IPA chart>>Yes, that's what I meant. <<"clock" is under the symbol "k">>Doh! CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#397157Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:397157Kooyeen3http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#397157http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-397157.xmlCalifJim wrote: To me the British au is closer to /o:/ ("higher"), and the American au is closer to /a:/ ("lower") Yes, I think you are right, provided you mean "higher" or "lower" on the IPA chart. So I guess Italian "o" is higher that American "au" for those how make a distinction. However, this is not true for all varieties of Italian, I guess. By the way, "clock" is under the symbol "k" on that website.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396889Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396889CalifJim4http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396889http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396889.xmlBritish au is more open than American au. Not sure how you're using the word open here. To me the British au is closer to /o:/ ("higher"), and the American au is closer to /a:/ ("lower"), but the difference is nothing near as dramatic as the difference between /o:/ and /a:/. CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396819Tue, 26 May 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396819Orpheus5http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396819http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396819.xmlNow I'm thoroughly puzzled. Is British o ( dog ) the same as American au ( taut )? I've never heard that before. I've always been told that we do not have the British o ( dog ) in AmE. British o in dog is very similar to American au in taut, but I don't think they are the same. I have always thought that American au is a bit longer than British o, and that British au is more open than American au. But I'm starting to get confused too now And while we are at it, the word pure the way it is pronounced on that website sounds to me more like /pjo:/ than /pju /. I understand that some Brits pronounce pure like that, but I don't think it is representative of the diphthong /u /. I'd say that the way it is pronounced on that site is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396795Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396795MrPedantic6http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396795http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396795.xmlMe too, Jim. I intend to avoid the word "occhio" until the matter is resolved. This may be a job for W— R— F—...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396787Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396787CalifJim7http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/3/vmvpr/Post.htm#396787http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396787.xmlthe "o" in "clock" on Nona's website I am further confused by the fact that I tried clicking every one of the examples on that site and none of them had the word "clock"! Wrong site? Isn't it the same one with the "ship" example you referred to earlier? And the by-now-infamous "frog"? CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396785Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396785CalifJim8http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396785http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396785.xmlI would do a pot/hot sound. Actually, I just looked this up in a dictionary I have, published in Britain, and it recommends using the o in dog . On the other hand, I have a book of Italian dialogs, published in the U.S., which recommends using the au in taut . (Both for the open o of Italian.) Now I'm thoroughly puzzled. Is British o ( dog ) the same as American au ( taut )? I've never heard that before. I've always been told that we do not have the British o ( dog ) in AmE. CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396780Tue, 26 May 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396780CalifJim9http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396780http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396780.xmlFrog? Clock has also that vowel. We have that vowel in Italian too. Why do you say it's weird? I think there is that vowel in American English, for those who distinguish "cot" and "caught". You seem to think that the vowel in British frog is the same as the vowel in American caught (where they have it). Not true. From what I've heard, the Italian sound you're talking about (open o , I believe you call it) is like in American caught (where they have it) -- not like in British frog . In some parts of the U.S. -- not all -- AmE dog and frog do have the same vowel as AmE caught , but that doesn't make it the vowel in British dog and frog . CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396779Tue, 26 May 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396779Kooyeen10http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396779http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396779.xmlWell, maybe it's a little different, because there are several kinds of "o" in British English, I think, and there are several kinds of "o" in Italian too. It depends on the accent... Some vowels (produced by speakers form a different region) sound funny to some speakers in Italy too. However, the "o" in "clock" on Nona's website sounds exactly like an Italian "o" to me. I thought those who didn't have the cot-caught merger had that sound too... well, on second thought, it is a little different, yeah. But that British "o" in clock is the closest you can get to Italian "o", I believe. By the way, there isn't only an "o" in Italian (my variety, at least), there is another kind, similar to the starting sound of the dipthong in "more".http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396768Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396768MrPedantic11http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396768http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396768.xmlThat's odd. I would do a pot/hot sound. (I always wondered why Italians winked at each other when I said "occhi".)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396759Tue, 26 May 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396759CalifJim12http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396759http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396759.xmlI was taught that that o sound (occhio) was closest to the au in author (for those Americans who speak an AmE in which that sound has not been changed to the a in father ) -- a sound nearly identical to the British au in author . I don't believe that is the same as the British o in frog , no. Of course, I may have been taught wrong, but if so, then it would have been by a native speaker from Rome who had her sense of speech sounds (whether American or Italian) messed up. CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396750Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396750MrPedantic13http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396750http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396750.xmlWould it be the first o in e.g. "occhio"? MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396379Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396379CalifJim14http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396379http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396379.xmlI'd venture to say that most Americans use /a:/ in father, cot, and caught -- all three. And I don't believe Italian has the vowel in British frog either! CJhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396377Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396377Orpheus15http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396377http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396377.xmlFrog? Clock has also that vowel. We have that vowel in Italian too. Why do you say it's weird? I think there is that vowel in American English, for those who distinguish "cot" and "caught". The vowel in frog (and hot and got, too) is indeed a typical feature of British English. I don't think you can find it in American pronunciation. Words which have this vowel will instead have /a:/ or /o:/ in American English. And I believe the vowel in cot in AmE is pronounced precisely like the vowel in father, while the vowel in caught is pronounced more like the vowel in dog. These two vowels i.e. /a:/ and /o:/ are not the same with the vowel in frog and clock in British pronunciation.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396359Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396359nona the brit16http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/2/vmvpr/Post.htm#396359http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396359.xmlGlad to make you smile CJ There's an ad on TV at the moment where a woman says 'hot' (same vowel sound) and the way she says it makes me laugh every time. She spits it out in such a stroppy and sharp way that she sounds like a terribly-posh-indeed 4-year-old in a mood! Just that one word,out of everything she says, comes across in a weird way.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#396274Tue, 26 May 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:396274Kooyeen17http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#396274http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-396274.xmlOk, thanks. Frog? Clock has also that vowel. We have that vowel in Italian too. Why do you say it's weird? I think there is that vowel in American English, for those who distinguish "cot" and "caught". I think (I can't check, they don't run on my OS now) my dictionaries pronounced "frog" and "dog" with that vowel, and not with the vowel in "father". I just say something at random, like "cot" or "caught", I don't really know what sound I make. What sounds funny to me (It has always sounded funny) is the way you hear "snow"... and you hear that in "no", "so", "closer"... Just think of "A little closer", it doesn't have tapped t's, the O in closer is funny, and no r's, so it's "closa".http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#395849Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:395849CalifJim18http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#395849http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-395849.xmlTake this site Nona's found. If you listen to "ship" (the fourth symbol), you can hear he final P. It's whispered, it's ok, but I think it's too much for Americans, generally speaking. I can hear the P... many Americans wouldn't release it so much, and I wouldn't hear it, I guess. Yup. What you say is generally true, but when we purposely make an effort to speak clearly, it sounds just like on that website. Off-topic, the example of the vowel in frog had me in stitches. There's no such sound in American English, and I find it nearly impossible to reproduce it, to the point of laughing heartily at my own attempts. Since nearly all of these English vowels, BrE or AmE, must be foreign to you ESL guys, you, too, must be...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394967Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394967MrPedantic19http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394967http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394967.xmlNona The Brit wrote: Mr P - don't you remember the Bob episode of Blackadder? I'm sure it comes from there. Phew. I was beginning to think I'd imagined it. (And offended every Bob on the forum.)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394782Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394782Kooyeen20http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394782http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394782.xmlYeah Anita, now I've seen where it is! Thx CalifJim wrote: -- What's a bigamist? -- A lot of fog. Hahahaaa Bot / Bop Bod / Bob The unvoiced consonants have the effect of clipping the vowel sound before the mouth forms the final consonant; the voiced consonants allow voicing to continue right through the end of the word including the time it takes to form the mouth into the shape of the final consonant. In the case of the voiced finals, you can sound the full consonant - just don't go beyond it to form another vowel after it! You can practice by doing the stereotypical Italian accent first, then reduce that final vowel by whispering it instead of saying it aloud. From there you can probably slip...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394778Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394778nona the brit21http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394778http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394778.xmlMr P - don't you remember the Bob episode of Blackadder? I'm sure it comes from there.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394561Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394561CalifJim22http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394561http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394561.xmlIf you say Bob as Bo-buh , bod as bo-duh , bop as bo-puh , and bot as bo-tuh , you will be doing a stereotypical Italian accent. Oh, yes! You got it! -- What's a bigamist? -- A lot of fog. there's not much difference between: Bot / Bop Bod / Bob It's very difficult to quantify "much difference", but I'd say you're right. There's a difference, but not much. The fi r st pair can be distinguished from the second by the vowel length (longer vowel and on two levels of intonation if the syllable ends with a voiced consonant). That's a reasonable description. The unvoiced consonants have the effect of clipping the vowel sound before the mouth forms the final consonant; the voiced consonants...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394497Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394497MrPedantic23http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394497http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394497.xmlIn BrE, strangely, if you don't release the final B of "Bob", but in fact non-release it excessively, it has a humorous effect. I'm not quite sure why. MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394494Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394494Pucca24http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htm#394494http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394494.xmlKooyeen wrote: Hi, I read Nona's new post earlier, but... where is it now? I can't see it anymore. It was a post with a link to a website where you could listen to IPA sounds (for British English). http://www.englishforums.com/English/HearTheIpaSounds/vmvgd/Post.htm You mean this one, Mr K?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htmSun, 26 Apr 2009 22:28:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:394451Kooyeen25http://www.englishforums.com/English/UnreleasedFinalConsonants/vmvpr/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-394451.xmlHi, I read Nona's new post earlier, but... where is it now? I can't see it anymore. It was a post with a link to a website where you could listen to IPA sounds (for British English). Well, I heard a lot of words pronounced with a clear consonant sound at the end. I thought of posting this: What are the consonant that are unreleased at the end of a word? (In American English, but Nona's and the other brits' opinions are welcome too of course, lol). If you say Bob as Bo-buh , bod as bo-duh , bop as bo-puh , and bot as bo-tuh , you will be doing a stereotypical Italian accent. What I notice is that in American English all the final consonants are unreleased, apart form k , which is not aspirated though. The T is unreleased and...