http://www.englishforums.com/English/EnglishAudioSpeechPronunciation/Forum22.htmBritish, American, Scottish accent or using super-fantastic-high-tech software, we'll help you with pronunciation.enXMOD (Build: 3616.28671)http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415207Mon, 25 May 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:415207Cvilla0http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415207http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-415207.xmlAnonymous wrote: Ok, I see you didn't get it. I will repeat it again. Accents and intonation aren't the same things. You can emphasize something without speaking a perfect accent, let's say American one. Just rise a pitch of your voice at the right place. This doesn't depend on a concrete accent, it is more matter of communication. Perhaps, you learnt these "tricks" at a pronunciation class, therefore you associate them only with an accent. Most learners are unaware about these topics, so most likely they will not understand you. You're right, intonation and accent aren't the same thing. But that's because intonation is part of the accent. Like I said, other accents don't use a "trick" like the one given in the example I posted...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415183Mon, 25 May 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:415183Anonymous1http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415183http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-415183.xmlKooyeen wrote: Ok, ok, let's keep it simple, this is already a mess. I really think what you said doesn't make any sense, but I want to understand why you are thinking this way. I quoted some of the things you said that I really don't understand. I highlighted the important parts in red: Anonymous wrote: Proper? And how do you define proper? Just make sure that you pronounce your sounds clearly and if you cannot do that than speak slowly. OK. So what is this accent we should have when speaking properly and that would be easily understood by everyone, both natives and non-natives? Clear (for example your 'l' sound can be dark, soft or even pelatilized but it should never sound like 'r') and slow speech with correct...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415179Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:415179Anonymous2http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415179http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-415179.xmlCvilla wrote: Anonymous wrote: I believe that I haven't missed anything. I think that you don't understand the concept clearly.I agree that (nothing new here) an intonation is one of the most important part of any accent. But in your example it is related to an empasis of some particular words to add a bit different meaning to your phrase (it is NOT an accent!). Usually it is done by changing a pitch of your voice at the right place. So, it has nothing to do with a concrete accent as we don't allways need to emphasize something, do we? But an intonation is used in every phrase. Every native speaker will do this if it is needed. On the other hand accents imply certain intonation patterns which add some kind of "melody" to the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415169Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:415169Kooyeen3http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415169http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-415169.xmlOk, ok, let's keep it simple, this is already a mess. I really think what you said doesn't make any sense, but I want to understand why you are thinking this way. I quoted some of the things you said that I really don't understand. I highlighted the important parts in red: Anonymous wrote: Proper? And how do you define proper? Just make sure that you pronounce your sounds clearly and if you cannot do that than speak slowly. OK. So what is this accent we should have when speaking properly and that would be easily understood by everyone, both natives and non-natives? Clear (for example your 'l' sound can be dark, soft or even pelatilized but it should never sound like 'r') and slow speech with correct grammar will be...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415084Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:415084Cvilla4http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#415084http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-415084.xmlAnonymous wrote: I believe that I haven't missed anything. I think that you don't understand the concept clearly.I agree that (nothing new here) an intonation is one of the most important part of any accent. But in your example it is related to an empasis of some particular words to add a bit different meaning to your phrase (it is NOT an accent!). Usually it is done by changing a pitch of your voice at the right place. So, it has nothing to do with a concrete accent as we don't allways need to emphasize something, do we? But an intonation is used in every phrase. Every native speaker will do this if it is needed. On the other hand accents imply certain intonation patterns which add some kind of "melody" to the speech. For example...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#414739Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414739Anonymous5http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#414739http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-414739.xmlHi, Uh, but what's the difference between accent and pronunciation? We pronounce cerain words but we speak with an accent. Accents often include such things as an intonation and way how you connect words in your speech. Proper? And how do you define proper? Just make sure that you pronounce your sounds clearly and if you cannot do that than speak slowly. so what accents "make speech inaccessible" for learners? Native accents are generally hard to follow. Although they are Ok for most people if spoken slowly and without any "I bake choo a pie" things. Not all people have aptitude and enough time to learn the way how to pronoune these phrases. OK. So what is this accent we should have when speaking properly and that would be easily...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#414725Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414725Anonymous6http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/3/vpwjp/Post.htm#414725http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-414725.xmlCvilla wrote: SillyMe wrote: "You knew your brother did a bad thing, did you?" "You knew your brother did a bad thing, did you ?" Is the difference between those two an accent matter, or a pronunciation matter? Neither. The intonation is the key. You have used an intonation stress to emphasise those words in the sentences. It has nothing to do with an accent. A lot of languages have the same mechanism for this purpose. People rarely speak in a monotonic way. They need an intonation to emphasise their ideas. You missed it, my friend. Intonation is part of an accent. And those specific intonation patterns I just showed you can be found in some languages, not all (you won't find it in Spanish,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#414256Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414256Cvilla7http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#414256http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-414256.xmlSillyMe wrote: "You knew your brother did a bad thing, did you?" "You knew your brother did a bad thing, did you ?" Is the difference between those two an accent matter, or a pronunciation matter? Neither. The intonation is the key. You have used an intonation stress to emphasise those words in the sentences. It has nothing to do with an accent. A lot of languages have the same mechanism for this purpose. People rarely speak in a monotonic way. They need an intonation to emphasise their ideas. You missed it, my friend. Intonation is part of an accent. And those specific intonation patterns I just showed you can be found in some languages, not all (you won't find it in Spanish, for example). Those...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#413398Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:413398Anonymous8http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#413398http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-413398.xmlBut what is true is that my current Spanish accent could be soften and I could start pronouncing the words as they should be. For those who don´t know Spanish, it is a language that reading and speaking are almost a univoque line (with some exceptions like h, g&j... that some critics want to get rid off and simplify). What I was asking for is for some kind of course or training that could help me to soften my accent and get everybody understand me a lot easier... get rid of my accent at my age? Impossible, too old!!! I know that . The prior aim means, as well, that among one of the things I definitively do not want to learn is this British stressing that makes very difficult to the listener to catch up. Appart from the above totally...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#413330Mon, 25 May 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:413330Kooyeen9http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#413330http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-413330.xmlHi, I'm sorry, but I really don't think most of what you said makes sense at all. But maybe it's me who doesn't understand, so let me comment on your post: Could you please find at least one place in this thread where I said that pronunciation was useless. Uh, but what's the difference between accent and pronunciation? I think they are the same! When someone has an accent, they pronounce words in a certain way. When someone pronounce words in a certain way, you can say they have a certain kind of accent. I was saying that it should have been proper to some extent. Proper? And how do you define proper? Is pronouncing like the Brits proper? Is American English proper? We are all definitely pronouncing words in a certain way, which...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412810Mon, 25 May 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412810SillyMe10http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412810http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412810.xmlSo you can't say accents and focusing on pronunciation are useless Could you please find at least one place in this thread where I said that pronunciation was useless. I was saying that it should have been proper to some extent. Accents do make speech inaccesible for most learners especially for those people whose English isn't good enough. It is because of the sound differences among various dialects and frequent sound reduction in the fast speech. So, I don't like the situation when for example something would be written as "I don't want to..." and you hear instead something like "I-don-wannah...". It doesn't make the language accessible for everyone. That's the main point. You should respect your listeners speaking properly and in as...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412731Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412731Kooyeen11http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412731http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412731.xmlSillyMe wrote: LOL! This one made me smile! They are not speaking fast, it's that you are listening too slowly. Don't worry, I was kidding. SillyMe wrote: I don’t think so. I have never spoken to an American. I watch only dubbed films and like them that way. I don’t listen to contemporary music, I like classical music. So, I think American English isn’t present in my life. No wonder you say accents and pronunciation are not important, then! So you are free not to care about spoken English at all. But many ESL learners want to speak with natives, want to be able to watch original movies, and want to understand the music they listen to. So you can't say accents and focusing on pronunciation are...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412601Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412601SillyMe12http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412601http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412601.xml"You knew your brother did a bad thing, did you?" "You knew your brother did a bad thing, did you ?" Is the difference between those two an accent matter, or a pronunciation matter? Neither. The intonation is the key. You have used an intonation stress to emphasise those words in the sentences. It has nothing to do with an accent. A lot of languages have the same mechanism for this purpose. People rarely speak in a monotonic way. They need an intonation to emphasise their ideas. If your friends have a hard time understanding you when you start speaking with a "stupid" accent, then you need to analyze if you're really learning the target accent or not. It's not the accent's fault. How can it be?...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412429Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412429Cvilla13http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412429http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412429.xmlKooyeen wrote: Ok, I don't know what to say, if you don't want or don't need to learn a variety of English, it's ok, no one forces you. I just have a couple of comments: Also a lot of my friends complain that they have a hard time understanding native speakers (they speak fast without a half of the letters in their words, another half sometimes is usually changed to totally different sounds. LOL! This one made me smile! They are not speaking fast, it's that you are listening too slowly. Seriously, I thought the same... before starting to learn American English seriously. I thought "they don't pronounce words properly, most sounds are left out...", well, that's not true. It was me who wanted to pronounce words my way, me who...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412418Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412418Kooyeen14http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412418http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412418.xmlOk, I don't know what to say, if you don't want or don't need to learn a variety of English, it's ok, no one forces you. I just have a couple of comments: Also a lot of my friends complain that they have a hard time understanding native speakers (they speak fast without a half of the letters in their words, another half sometimes is usually changed to totally different sounds. LOL! This one made me smile! They are not speaking fast, it's that you are listening too slowly. Seriously, I thought the same... before starting to learn American English seriously. I thought "they don't pronounce words properly, most sounds are left out...", well, that's not true. It was me who wanted to pronounce words my way, me who didn't want to leave...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412413Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412413Cvilla15http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/2/vpwjp/Post.htm#412413http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412413.xmlSillyMe wrote: There is no need to improve an accent. Sometimes some work on pronunciation is required, but no more than that. Everyone should just make sure that he could be understood and that is enough. I've seen a lot of people who thought they were fluent in the language enough to imitate a native pronunciation. Needless to say everyone had hard time understanding them. What is that for? Perhaps you have never met a foreigner who thought that he could speak with an Irish accent. You even cannot imagine the sequence of sounds generated by this person. I don't know how but you misunderstood me. I was talking about my friends who would have hard time understanding me if I started speaking with a stupid accent. To conclude I want to...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#412328Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:412328SillyMe16http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#412328http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-412328.xmlCvilla wrote: SillyMe wrote: I don't know much about Spanish. You know it better. May be proper pronunciation is important sometimes, but I think it depends on the place where you are living. There are no native speakers in my surrounding and everyone makes his/her own mistakes in speech. Moreover everyone tolerates them and nobody will point out mistakes made by others. Also a lot of my friends complain that they have a hard time understanding native speakers (they speak fast without a half of the letters in their words, another half sometimes is usually changed to totally different sounds. That is what an accent is about.). Why should I make their time even harder by speaking with a particular accent? Nothing can sound more...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#411387Mon, 25 May 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:411387Cvilla17http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#411387http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-411387.xmlSillyMe wrote: I don't know much about Spanish. You know it better. May be proper pronunciation is important sometimes, but I think it depends on the place where you are living. There are no native speakers in my surrounding and everyone makes his/her own mistakes in speech. Moreover everyone tolerates them and nobody will point out mistakes made by others. Also a lot of my friends complain that they have a hard time understanding native speakers (they speak fast without a half of the letters in their words, another half sometimes is usually changed to totally different sounds. That is what an accent is about.). Why should I make their time even harder by speaking with a particular accent? Nothing can sound more terrible than a...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#411213Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:411213SillyMe18http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#411213http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-411213.xmlCvilla wrote: Believe it or not, accents play an important role in the social environment. In the Spanish speaking world, colombian people may have a hard time understanding us costaricans because of the way most of us pronounce the "r" and because of the accent itself. To us, some colombian accents are just terrible, while others are pleasant to the ear. And that's just an example; add Peru, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Bolivia, Ecuadro, Chile, Argentina, España, Cuba, etc. Believe it or not, we can't understand each other that easily... and we all speak Spanish! When I decided to learn the "standard" american accent (let's say an accent from a region that would make americans think I have no accent), I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#411144Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:411144Cvilla19http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#411144http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-411144.xmlBelieve it or not, accents play an important role in the social environment. In the Spanish speaking world, colombian people may have a hard time understanding us costaricans because of the way most of us pronounce the "r" and because of the accent itself. To us, some colombian accents are just terrible, while others are pleasant to the ear. And that's just an example; add Peru, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Bolivia, Ecuadro, Chile, Argentina, España, Cuba, etc. Believe it or not, we can't understand each other that easily... and we all speak Spanish! When I decided to learn the "standard" american accent (let's say an accent from a region that would make americans think I have no accent), I noticed how important...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410658Mon, 25 May 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:410658SillyMe20http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410658http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-410658.xmlAnonymous wrote: SillyMe wrote: Hello, I just don't understand why you people are obsessed that much with your accents. For me there is only one thing seems important that is to be understood. I doesn't matter how you sound unless you are a stage performer. If we are foreigners we are supposed to speak with a foreign accent. From personal experience I can say that it makes me feel inconvenient when a foreigner is trying to speak with my accent in my native language; it sounds like a total humiliation. I think even if you are making small mistakes in your pronunciation you will be understood anyway, because we don't speak single words but sentences. So, mistakes in one or two words can rarely affect a clarity of speech. I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410653Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:410653SillyMe21http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410653http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-410653.xmlKooyeen wrote: Hi, SillyMe wrote: I just don't understand why you people are obsessed that much with your accents. Who is obsessed? Most learners are not obsessed. Actually, they usually don't care much about pronunciation and neglect spolen English. I am "obsessed" because I like English. I like accents. Why shouldn't I care about spoken English? Why shouldn't I notice the way people speak? SillyMe wrote: For me there is only one thing seems important that is to be understood. Yes, if you're only interested in communicating a concept, a fact or something. Those who really like English like it as a whole, pronunciation included. You mention "to be understood", what about "to understand"http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410634Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:410634Anonymous22http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410634http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-410634.xmlSillyMe wrote: Hello, I just don't understand why you people are obsessed that much with your accents. For me there is only one thing seems important that is to be understood. I doesn't matter how you sound unless you are a stage performer. If we are foreigners we are supposed to speak with a foreign accent. From personal experience I can say that it makes me feel inconvenient when a foreigner is trying to speak with my accent in my native language; it sounds like a total humiliation. I think even if you are making small mistakes in your pronunciation you will be understood anyway, because we don't speak single words but sentences. So, mistakes in one or two words can rarely affect a clarity of speech. I believe I have a strong accent...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410541Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:410541Kooyeen23http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htm#410541http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-410541.xmlHi, SillyMe wrote: I just don't understand why you people are obsessed that much with your accents. Who is obsessed? Most learners are not obsessed. Actually, they usually don't care much about pronunciation and neglect spolen English. I am "obsessed" because I like English. I like accents. Why shouldn't I care about spoken English? Why shouldn't I notice the way people speak? SillyMe wrote: For me there is only one thing seems important that is to be understood. Yes, if you're only interested in communicating a concept, a fact or something. Those who really like English like it as a whole, pronunciation included. You mention "to be understood", what about "to understand"? Learning about pronunciation has really...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htmWed, 25 Mar 2009 22:02:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:410259SillyMe24http://www.englishforums.com/English/Accents/vpwjp/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments22-410259.xmlHello, I just don't understand why you people are obsessed that much with your accents. For me there is only one thing seems important that is to be understood. I doesn't matter how you sound unless you are a stage performer. If we are foreigners we are supposed to speak with a foreign accent. From personal experience I can say that it makes me feel inconvenient when a foreigner is trying to speak with my accent in my native language; it sounds like a total humiliation. I think even if you are making small mistakes in your pronunciation you will be understood anyway, because we don't speak single words but sentences. So, mistakes in one or two words can rarely affect a clarity of speech. I believe I have a strong accent and I am proud of...