http://www.englishforums.com/English/ControversialTopics/Forum28.htm<font color=red>This entire section is moderated</font><br> Dedicated to continual re-education and our search for a broader understanding of life. Please register if you wish to post here.enXMOD (Build: 3607.32596)http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#972521Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:24:04 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:972521Saltukhan0http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#972521http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-972521.xmlFreedom of Speech Do you really believe that does it exist? Freedom of Speech can exists? Can you imagine a world like this? I can&#39;t. Imagine that. we can say whatever we want, whatever we think. Our thoughts, sayings would conflict with some people&#39;s benefits. There are a lot of people. So there will a lot of thoughts and sayings. A lot of thoughts and sayings will block some people&#39;s benefits. What will those PEOPLE who lost their benefits? They will try to stop freedom of speech. Who are those PEOPLE? They are RICH People. So Conclusion, Rich people are taking all precautions in order to block Freedom of Speech by affecting states. They affect all governments, military forces,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#966145Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:12:11 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:966145Cool Breeze1http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#966145http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-966145.xmlI don&#39;t feel that the traditional media have improved in either of those countries. In fact, I feel that the UK may have climbes up by default and deception. I have had serious posting problems recently and that&#39;s why I&#39;m late in replying to you. I&#39;m not saying that you are wrong, but maybe Reporters Without Borders and I see the freedom of speech from a slightly different angle from yours. The organisation doesn&#39;t consider it wrong for a country to have a tabloid press that concentrates on what uneducated people in particular want to read about. In my opinion, such a press can only exist in a country that has at least some freedom of the press. There are no tabloids in North Korea! In the UK, the tabloids give...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#959179Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:01:39 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:959179Adrenochrome2http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#959179http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-959179.xmlThanks for the link, the list makes interesting reading. I congratulate your proud nation on reclaiming the top spot, though feel that the UK and America should not have climbed up the ladder. I don&#39;t feel that the traditional media have improved in either of those countries. In fact, I feel that the UK may have climbes up by default and deception. For the last couple of months, one UK daily newspaper has devoted its front page every day to Peter Andre and Kate Price, notably the latter, and the end of their marriage. With such daily insights into Kates self promotion, I fail to see this as either honest reporting (surely she is just manufacturing non-entity stories to keep the paper happy) nor is it really reporting. As...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#948808Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:47:14 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:948808Cool Breeze3http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#948808http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-948808.xmlFinland used to be the No. 1 country on the Reporters Without Borders press freedom list. We are now at No. 5 and I don&#39;t remember the reason why we lost first place. It was something very insignificant and temporary, though. Hopefully we&#39;ll get back to No. 1 soon. A new press freedom index was published yesterday by Reporters Without Borders. It puts Finland back at the top. This quotation outlines the criteria used in assessing freedom of the press and other media: &quot;To compile this index, Reporters Without Borders prepared a questionnaire with 40 criteria that assess the state of press freedom in each country. It includes every kind of violation directly affecting journalists (such as murders, imprisonment, physical...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#860236Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:16:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:860236Adrenochrome4http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#860236http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-860236.xmlDear CoolBreeze you have answered my point perfectly - only in 1950 was the consent matter passed, which a mentally ill person would be allowed to have someone make their decision for them, hence by-passing that legislation. A clear loop-hole. My comment about your ignorance was also not a general comment, just regarding the eugenics aspect. Censorship of the media and education system comes in many shapes and forms - non-discussion being just as much a form of censorship as altering facts (as Stalin was famous for doing in Russia). In Britain we also allow and even advance the cause of the &#39;urban myth&#39;, eg teaching in schools that before Christopher Columbus, people believed that the planet was flat not a spherical...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#804189Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:30:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:804189Cool Breeze5http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/9/glkmw/Post.htm#804189http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-804189.xmlYou may have noticed that the second article I refered you to is regarding Scandanavian Sterilisation from 1930s up to 1970s. Hitler died in 1945, yet the eugenics continued. Finland is not accountable for what happened in other countries, just as England isn&#39;t responsible for things that occur in France, for example. With regard to Finland, you seem to be even more in the dark than I even though you criticised my ignorance in an earlier post of yours. All sessions of the Finnish parliament are open for anyone to attend and public records are of course kept of all legislation. Some parliamentary sessions are televised. As far as eugenics in Finland is concerned, this is a brief summary of the most important laws since the year...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#803336Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:38:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:803336Adrenochrome6http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#803336http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-803336.xmlCool Breeze You may have noticed that the second article I refered you to is regarding Scandanavian Sterilisation from 1930s up to 1970s. Hitler died in 1945, yet the eugenics continued. As for me - no I&#39;m from one of the smallest countries within Europe. Only 58 million people, and, despite believing that our genetics lies in the Danish/German/French sphere, most natives have Euskardi DNA. We have the longest continuously sitting democratic government in the world (the Tyndwald) and have suffered terrorist attacks from An Gof and the Sons of Glyndwr. Our government has never owned a newspaper, though we do have a television channel paid for by a tax. Our newspapers have always been owned by individuals - Rupert...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#801427Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:22:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:801427Cool Breeze7http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#801427http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-801427.xmlIf your press is/was so free, then how come you are completely unaware of this matter. My apologies. I got the impression from your first post that you were talking about a specifically Finnish or Scandinavian programme initiated here, not Hitler&#39;s doctrines, which were indeed practised to an extent worldwide. I agree with you: I don&#39;t think any one of the countries where eugenics was practised is particularly proud of what they did. I would just like to mention that I wasn&#39;t even born in the 1930s and therefore couldn&#39;t possibly read newspapers in those days. Since even in those days the Finnish government owned no newspaper, it wouldn&#39;t have been able to prevent news about such activities from becoming public...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#800971Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:48:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:800971Adrenochrome8http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#800971http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-800971.xmlDear Coolbreeze If your press is/was so free, then how come you are completely unaware of this matter. The &#39;Scandanavian Sterilization Acts&#39; were government policy - obviously the shame of this activity has led to your media not discussing them. Perhaps you could by-pass your nations censorship and read books such as &#39;Eugenics and the Welfare State: Sterilization Policy in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland (Uppsala Studies in History of Science) (Paperback) by Gunnar Broberg (Author), Nils Roll-Hansen (Author) &#39; or articles such as &#39;as happened with the Scandinavian sterilisation programmes of the 1930s-1970s (Broberg and Roll-Hansen, 1996).&#39; Strange that you are unaware of these...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#790815Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:44:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:790815Soka9http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#790815http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-790815.xmlHello ?!?!?!? can anyone tell me what&#39;s happening out there? i was trying to figure out this discussion , but in vain ..http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#772004Tue, 09 Jun 2009 07:04:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:772004Cool Breeze10http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#772004http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-772004.xmlThis is part of the Global Overview in the Internationap Press Institute&#39;s report on press freedom in the world in 2008: &quot; This year IPI focuses on Asia, which proved the region deadliest for journalists in 2008, largely due to a string of killings in India, Pakistan and the Philippines. But journalists in other corners of the globe died in disturbing numbers, such as in Iraq, Mexico, Georgia and Russia, where the apparent execution-style killing of an Ingushetian reporter unnerved a journalistic community long accustomed to harrowing violence. Other developments showed that journalists, a competitive bunch, have good reason for increased solidarity in light of the strikingly similar challenges they face worldwide....http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#769937Mon, 08 Jun 2009 04:10:19 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:769937cwtch11http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#769937http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-769937.xmlTranssexual or people who do it with both men and women now are called special genders, the list goes on…. A transexual is someone who identifies themselves as the gender that doesn&#39;t match their body parts. They may or may not go through with gender reassignment surgery. It has no bearing on which sex they prefer to have intercourse with. I agree with your comments about political correctness. One issue that irritates me (well many irritate me but I&#39;ll only go into one) is the word &#39;Oriental.&#39; Now, we are supposed to say,&#39;Asian&#39; or &#39;Asian American&#39;. That is so vague and ridiculous. First, I&#39;ve never heard Oriental used in a derogatory way. Second, it basically means &#39;pertaining to...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#768839Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:52:36 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:768839Cool Breeze12http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#768839http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-768839.xmlAmerican negro students were shot dead for protesting in the 1960s USA. Scandanavian countries adopted a stance of neutering mentally handicapped citizens in the 1950s &amp; 60s. Britain plundered the Empire for centuries, building its wealth upon the lives of others. I could go on, but I feel that my point is made. I know about Westerns sins. However, that isn&#39;t the point in this thread, which deals with press freedom . Even if many Western countries don&#39;t wish to be reminded of their sins, a free press makes it possible to write about them. If you write about American Negro students who were shot dead in an American newspaper, you won&#39;t be put behind bars. If the Chinese write about the Tiananmen Square massacre in Chinese...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#763964Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:09:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:763964Adrenochrome13http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#763964http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-763964.xmlAll nations have sins that they no longer wish to be reminded of and whilst the Western media likes to remind us of Tiananmen Square and the events of twenty years ago, the same media does not celebrate the anniversaries of other political and state actions that have shamed the West. American negro students were shot dead for protesting in the 1960s USA. Scandanavian countries adopted a stance of neutering mentally handicapped citizens in the 1950s &amp; 60s. Britain plundered the Empire for centuries, building its wealth upon the lives of others. I could go on, but I feel that my point is made. Whilst we must be aware of the lessons of history, so that we do not repeat the mistakes made, we do have to live in the present...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#761545Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:02:39 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:761545Cool Breeze14http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/8/glkmw/Post.htm#761545http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-761545.xmlI am certain some Chinese will &quot;correct&quot; me when I bring back to people&#39;s minds what happened 20 years ago in Tiananmen Square. This BBC article is a good lead-in. Very few of today&#39;s Chinese university students know about this massacre of hundreds, perhaps thousands of people. Access to information is carefully blocked with the help of some western companies like Google. In China, googling for &quot;Tiananmen Square&quot; either takes you to the square&#39;s official website or informs you that the site cannot be shown! No tanks can be seen in any pictures. There is no mention of the massacre in the history books used in Chinese schools. This policy is in keeping with the policies of all authoritarian societies...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#711815Sat, 02 May 2009 19:38:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:711815Adrenochrome15http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#711815http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-711815.xmlRuslana I&#39;m afraid that you have overlooked the Cold War and the USAs anti-Communist stance. American society is raised with a very right wing view, in comparison with the rest of the world. I&#39;ve even heard people describe Barrack Obama as a socialist/communist, yet in global terms he is a moderate right wing politician. When you talk about &#39;freedom of speech&#39;, you fail to remember that criticising the US government is unpatriotic and anti-American, according to the Patriot Act. The rights of &#39;Habeas Corpus&#39; and trial by twelve men and true did not apply to thousands of people held without any charge for years in Guantanemo Bay. Where was the freedom of speech during the McCarthy era? The...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#693696Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:22:47 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:693696Ruslana16http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#693696http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-693696.xmlCB, as soon as I heard that news, I was SURE you&#39;d show up with it here. Funny it is how predictable people may be. Anyway, what I now want to say is that we have Finnish propaganda colliding with Russian propaganda here. Both are true at some points, and both are wrong at some points. But that was surely NOT the topic. Because, CB, what you are doing is posting only negative and only about Russia . OK you have your own reasons and no one has a right to blame you for that. But if this thread goes forward in this direction - it would be much better to start a new one titled &quot;Slinging mud at Russia&quot;. By the way, that guy from The New York Times Bureau, - that was a very apt example of American propaganda which is neither...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#693496Thu, 02 Apr 2009 07:39:28 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:693496Cool Breeze17http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#693496http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-693496.xmlA Russian human rights activist and well-known critic of the Russian regime was beaten up in Moscow last Tuesday. The leader of For Human Rights organisation Lev Ponomarjov was attacked in front of his home by a group of men who took his cell phone. Ponomarjov had to go to hospital after the attack. Ponomarjov has been vocal about the fact that young Russians haven&#39;t been given enough correct information on the Soviet Gulag. They have been fed myths about Dictator Josif Stalin instead. - Reuters CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#693170Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:19:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:693170ISU_15218http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#693170http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-693170.xmlNo one is or was trying to count any votes. - thank you very much. I know , my english in bad, but do not know how bad . But this way to improve is not worse than all another. CB - History is scientific discipline. As all sientistiс discipline he had methods of testify and analyse primary sourses - letters from arhives in this situation . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source . All documents must be tested and allowed , or denied as fake . It`s hard work but he must be done if we want to found truth . You can not decline the facts , just because you dont liked they . You can imagine the physicist , as example , who may say - &quot;Results of this experiment is bad for my teory and i do not use they&quot; . it`s not physicist but...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#692531Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:12:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:692531Cool Breeze19http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#692531http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-692531.xmlbut naturally the majority of Estonians wanted to remain independent and not be ruled by Stalin - somebody trying to calculate ? No one is or was trying to count any votes. Stalin set up a puppet government in Estonia and understandably it never organised an election. Consequently it was not possible to count the votes as none were cast. Fortunately he didn&#39;t succeed in invading Finland. During the Winter War (1939-1940) Stalin&#39;s officers had to shoot some reluctant Russian soldiers in the back to force them to advance into Finnish territory. If Stalin had had his way, you would now be writing about Finns having given flowers to Stalin&#39;s troops and no doubt you would be convinced that Finland joined the Soviet Union...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#692477Mon, 30 Mar 2009 09:59:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:692477ISU_15220http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#692477http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-692477.xmlUnfortunately your English is so inadequate that I just don&#39;t understand everything you say, Sorry. What error i made ? Hitler and Stalin, the two major dictators involved in World War II, had divided eastern Europe among themselves On Paris conferention in 3 december 1917 British and Franse had divide Russia аmong temselves On Munch conferention in 1938 British and Franse goverment allow Hitler and Poland Leader Edward Rydz-Śmigły to divide Czechoslovakia among themselves http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement Sorry -as saying russian proverb Neighbouring with wolves - howl like wolves but naturally the majority of Estonians wanted to remain independent and not be ruled by Stalin - somebody trying to calculate ? Sorry...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#692132Sun, 29 Mar 2009 10:28:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:692132Cool Breeze21http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#692132http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-692132.xmlFlowers - is historical fact Unfortunately your English is so inadequate that I just don&#39;t understand everything you say, ISU. Hitler and Stalin, the two major dictators involved in World War II, had divided eastern Europe among themselves before the war began. Finland and the Baltic states were supposed to be Stalin&#39;s territory. It is of course possible that a handful of people gave flowers to the invading Russians, but naturally the majority of Estonians wanted to remain independent and not be ruled by Stalin, who had already killed millions of Soviets in the 30s. People were justly scared to death of him. You can read about the pact here. Germans suffered from mental anguish on account of Hitler&#39;s atrocities long...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#691572Fri, 27 Mar 2009 11:44:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:691572ISU_15222http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#691572http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-691572.xmlFlowers - is historical fact . And 8 estonian rifleman`s corps - 32 000 estonian volonters in Red Army - is historical facts too. Nine hero of the soviet union , many cavalier of another soviet medals - he was really brave men`s. For compare - naci can enlist only 15 000 man for Estonian legion SS and when both regiment meet in the battle - naci was be forced to run like lighting (best voting bu my option). Today sons of naci rule in Estonia and write a book`s , trying to rehabilitate his fathers Why most part of estonian people in that time prefered Stalin more , than his former goverment - is question to the goverment . may be estonians leaders in that time be not so wise than marhal Mannerhaim ?http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#691557Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:34:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:691557Cool Breeze23http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/7/glkmw/Post.htm#691557http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-691557.xmlMany Russians too - as example remember flowers, with were estonian people welcomed soviet troops I visited Tallinn in 1976 for the first time because my Estonian friend wasn&#39;t allowed to leave the Soviet Union and visit me. She told me watching Finnish television was her only entertainment and that she was certain the Soviet rule would never end. I consoled her by telling her that so far in history, no tyranny had lasted forever. We couldn&#39;t of course talk about things like this in public places, only in her flat. Now the tyranny and fear are over! I assume Russian historians also contend that Finns gave flowers to invading Russians 200 years ago? And we probably gave roses to Russian troops on 30th November 1939 when...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#691264Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:05:55 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:691264ISU_15224http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#691264http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-691264.xmlUsally such books contents nothing except falsehoods . Many Finns and Estonians are old enough to personally remember the events of the 40s Many Russians too - as example remember flowers, with were estonian people welcomed soviet troopshttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#690272Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:38:11 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:690272Cool Breeze25http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#690272http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-690272.xmlOK , distortion of history in good theme for another tread ... sometimes its looking like we are all from parallel worlds - so different versions of history we have About half a dozen young Putin-led Russians from Estonia demonstrated against a book published in Finland yesterday about the Soviet invasion of Estonia in the 1940s. I find it ludicrous that anyone from abroad should come and tell us what we should publish and read. I know that since there is little freedom of speech in Russia, such a book in Russian is inconceivable and the authors might lose their lives. In the free world anyone can write and talk about anything, be it for or against anyone. About 300 Finns came to wonder at the demostrators and listen to the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#689580Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:19:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:689580ISU_15226http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#689580http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-689580.xmlOK , distortion of history in good theme for another tread ... sometimes its looking like we are all from parallel worlds - so different versions of history we havehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#689241Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:28:08 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:689241Cool Breeze27http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#689241http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-689241.xmlIt&#39;s pointless to try to tell me what I should and shouldn&#39;t write about. I know, that&#39;s why I have never tried to tell you, &quot;CB, you should write about this and should not write about that&quot;. Oh, I see. In that case I misunderstood this completely: &quot; The topic is also about freedom of speech in the US, China, and other countries, CB&quot; CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688949Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:19:39 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688949Ruslana28http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688949http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688949.xmlIt&#39;s pointless to try to tell me what I should and shouldn&#39;t write about. I know, that&#39;s why I have never tried to tell you, &quot;CB, you should write about this and should not write about that&quot;. OK, let Reporters Without Borders , to which you have reffered time and again, be the truth of first instance. You need not worry. Nah, I am not worried at all, come off! I&#39;m enjoying a great sunny day out here that predicates soon coming of spring!http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688904Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:06:38 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688904Cool Breeze29http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688904http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688904.xmlFrom my part, being a citizen of Russia, I still do think that freedom of speech (as well as distorting of history) here is not much worse, as well as it&#39;s not much better, than in other big countries . This is what the latest report (2007) of Reporters Without Borders says about press freedom in the world. Russia is at 144 and I think there are two big countries behind it: Saudi Arabia and China. Both are very undemocratic and thus it isn&#39;t at all surprising that they don&#39;t have a free press. This quote is about Russia: &quot;Russia (144th) is not progressing. Anna Politkovskaya’s murder in October 2006, the failure to punish those responsible for murdering journalists, and the still glaring lack of diversity in the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688732Thu, 19 Mar 2009 21:55:45 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688732Cool Breeze30http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688732http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688732.xmlThe topic is also about freedom of speech in the US, China, and other countries, CB. From my part, being a citizen of Russia, I still do think that freedom of speech (as well as distorting of history) here is not much worse, as well as it&#39;s not much better, than in other big countries . So there&#39;s no point to be so obsessed with that. Anyone can think and write freely what they think of freedom of speech in any particular country. All kinds of comparisons are of course also possible, the way you have just done. You have your opinions and I have mine and we can both express them on these forums, and so can everybody else. It&#39;s pointless to try to tell me what I should and shouldn&#39;t write about. I don&#39;t want to...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688645Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:58:53 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688645Ruslana31http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688645http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688645.xmlThe topic is also about freedom of speech in the US, China, and other countries, CB. From my part, being a citizen of Russia, I still do think that freedom of speech (as well as distorting of history) here is not much worse, as well as it&#39;s not much better, than in other big countries . So there&#39;s no point to be so obsessed with that. Btw, strictly speaking, distortion of history is not the topic. But it may concern it from the next point of view: Freedom of speech = the right to state things you want Stating things you want = (may lead to) distortion of history consequently: Freedom of speech = distortion of history So: 1) Is there freedom of speech in Russia, if you have distortion of history here? 2) Is freedom of...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688636Thu, 19 Mar 2009 16:22:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688636Cool Breeze32http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/6/glkmw/Post.htm#688636http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688636.xmlAll nations in the world have many causes to be proud and some cause for shame. Russia is not best and not worst. You cannot find something extraordinary in Russian history except a many imagination of anti-soviet propagandists. Right. I was originally writing about the lack of freedom of speech and distortion of history in Russia, not wars. Your links take me to what historians call &quot;kinship wars&quot;. I have heard of these border skirmishes but never bothered to learn every detail. What I meant is that Finland didn&#39;t try to attack and occupy Russia/the Soviet Union after becoming independent in 1917. If one looks at a map, it&#39;s rather easy to see why... CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688613Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:41:08 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688613ISU_15233http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688613http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688613.xmland the British never invaded Finland - because russians do not gave him chance I don&#39;t know who Mannergem is. The commander-in-chief of the Finnish armed forces was Mannerheim. Excuse me for a typing error. He or Finland didn&#39;t attack the Soviet Union in 1918 or 1921. That&#39;s utter rubbish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aunus_expedition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viena_expedition - first Soviet–Finnish war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Karelian_Uprising - second I have no idea what you mean by &quot;my logic.&quot; I have never said I hate any nation. All nations in the world have many causes to be proud and some cause for shame. Russia is not best and not worst. You cannot find something extraordinary in Russian...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688534Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:02:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688534Cool Breeze34http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688534http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688534.xmlYou`re not right . British fleet bombarded Bomarsund and Sveaborg in 1855 Indeed! I had forgotten all about that because it was all a minor episode of the Crimean War and the British never invaded Finland or made us pay them anything for our &quot;war crimes&quot; the way the Soviets did. British troops invade russia in 1918 year and made massacre in nord Russia . I am not responsible for what the British have done. Finnish troops under Mannergem command invade Russia in 1918 , 1921 and 1941 year We had a civil war in 1918 with Russia involved to some extent and backing the so-called Reds. The role of the Russians fighting in Finland was rather limited. They mostly engaged in action in Carelia. I don&#39;t know who...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688480Thu, 19 Mar 2009 08:51:52 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688480ISU_15235http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688480http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688480.xmlSoviet Union is the only country that has attacked Finland in the past 1,000 years. First - You`re not right . British fleet bombarded Bomarsund and Sveaborg in 1855 . Second - British troops invade russia in 1918 year and made massacre in nord Russia . Finnish troops under Mannergem command invade Russia in 1918 , 1921 and 1941 year and , in last even made massacre in Petrozavodsk sity . Polish invade Russia in 1921 year , and made massacre in Ucraine too . Czech legion in Russia made massacre in Taiga railroad station in Siberia in 1920 . German - all know . Bu your logic i must hate almost all nation in the world , because almost all nation during last 1000 trying invade Russia Three : Russian historian Alexandr Djukov said last...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688204Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:44:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688204Ruslana36http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688204http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688204.xmlI&#39;m very sorry for your family, CB. But I hope sad memory of those events won&#39;t completely shadow perception of good affairs happening along with bad ones in Russia. It&#39;s a naive dream but I wish the world history had never gone through such black pages as repressions, Nazism, invasions, wars, 9/11, etc...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688142Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:44:47 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688142Cool Breeze37http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688142http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688142.xmlPlease don&#39;t tell me Russia&#39;s the ONLY country in the world that distorts history I never said Russia was the only country that does that. So what makes her be so special to accuse of that? Your personal bad attitude to her? Russia is mentioned in the title of this thread, so it&#39;s very logical to write about the freedom of the press there. Russia&#39;s war crimes are close to my heart because Russia/the Soviet Union is the only country that has attacked Finland in the past 1,000 years. If it hadn&#39;t done so, I would be living in what is Russia now. My parents, who lived in Carelia, had to flee Carelia or be killed by the Soviets in the 1940s. You can&#39;t seriously expect me to love a country that has...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688077Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:05:15 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688077Ruslana38http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688077http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688077.xmlHey CB, Please don&#39;t tell me Russia&#39;s the ONLY country in the world that distorts history. So what makes her be so special to accuse of that? Your personal bad attitude to her? And I just can&#39;t get it why you think that media from which you get info is anyhow closer to the truth that any other media. They are all blah-blah-blah trying to clash people with each other, and the government of every country pursuies its own goal (including Finland). People like you and me are just pawns. P.S. Have you subscribed to all news establishing the guilt of Russia?http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688038Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:48:44 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688038Cool Breeze39http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#688038http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-688038.xmlRussia is returning to the Soviet days and ways of distorting history. In new schoolbooks dealing with the period between World War I and World War II, students are not openly told that the Soviet Union occupied the Baltic States and that the Carelian Isthmus used to belong to Finland. A new law has been proposed in the Russian Parliament. According to it, historians in neighbouring countries who &quot;distort&quot; and &quot;rewrite&quot; what happened during World War II should be likened to those suspected of terrorism and thus should be permanently denied entry to Russia. Russian historian Alexandr Djukov said last year that he would like to kill a young Latvian documentarist named Edvins Snore with his own hands. Snore&#39;s film...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#678279Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:37:30 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:678279Cool Breeze40http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#678279http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-678279.xmlYou can read Amnesty International&#39;s opinion about the death of Anna Politkovskaya and other human rights activists here. The gist of it is: &quot;One year ago, on 7 October, she was murdered outside her flat in Moscow. This was almost certainly because of her work as a journalist, in which she exposed human rights violations throughout Russia. Amnesty International believes that the handling of the criminal investigation into her death to date shows that there is little political will to bring those who ordered the killing to justice.&quot; Here is another Amnesty report about decreasing press freedom in Russia. 61 journalists have been killed in Russia since 1 January 2000 but no one has been convicted of murder. For...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#609881Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:609881ISU_15241http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/5/glkmw/Post.htm#609881http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-609881.xmlInteresting document, thanks, Cool ))). First - similar grup&#39;s exist in Russia - &quot;Liberal Charter&quot; and &quot;Charter 97&quot; in Belarus republic. nobody of member of this groups still not prisoned, and them can take part in elections (without results , but it only they problem) Second - Previos attempt of democratisation cost at least 50 million of lives for China and at least 8 million ( nobody exactly know how much ) for Russia . May be China goverment know what he do ?http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#609870Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:609870yanghe42http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#609870http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-609870.xmlI think the freedom depends on the level of opening to the outside world, such as china ,I felt that deeply in recent years !http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#609867Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:609867yanghe43http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#609867http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-609867.xmlthere are different situations in different countries,so the freedom can&#39;t get to a permanent standard all over the world ! but i think ,as the development of the country ,people will have more rights and freedom to protect their profit !http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#609862Thu, 21 May 2009 12:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:609862Cool Breeze44http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#609862http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-609862.xmlAn exceptionally large number of artists, lawyers, politicians and other eminent people have demanded freedoms of various kinds and democracy in China. Their Charter &#39;08 was published yesterday. You can read an English translation of it here. Anyone who criticises the Chinese government is usually punished. Two of those who signed the Charter were arrested before the Charter was released. ( Helsingin Sanomat ) CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#579301Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:579301Cool Breeze45http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#579301http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-579301.xmlThe latest report on press freedom by Reporters Without Borders is here. The situation has improved slightly in Russia but China fares even worse than last year. The best non-European country is Canada (13th). Finland hasn&#39;t reached the very top and probably never will as one of the new criteria is the size of the media. Finland doesn&#39;t of course have a newspaper monopoly but Helsingin Sanoma t, the largest newspaper in Scandinavia, has a circulation of about 500,000, which is 10 percent of the population of the country. An equivalent circulation for a newspaper in Britain would be 6 million and in the USA 30 million copies. CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#565718Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:565718Deniska46http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#565718http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-565718.xmlHi, guys. It is very interesting theme, that you are discussing. So I&#39;ve decided to join your company . If you interested in the freedom of speech in Russia, I can say what I see from here, one of Russian towns. People are free to say everything, that is not: 1. A call for an overthrow a government 2. A call for mass riots 3. A calumny to somebody. As for murders of journalists, I think it is very strange. If somebody wants to make jouralist keep silence, there are a lot of ways to do this. They can give him money, or intimidate him, etc. Variants for authorities are: make him discharged by his employer (and put his name to some blacklist), or throw him in jail. Even if somebody wants to kill the man, why it is need to shoot him?...http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#564507Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:564507Ruslana47http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#564507http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-564507.xmlPerhaps... perhaps Finnish mass media simply conceal all alike facts and this is why nobody knows that in Finland?http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#563086Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:563086Cool Breeze48http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#563086http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-563086.xmlI am glad that you live in Finnland - a quiet country without much problems and different ethnic and religious groups. But wherever there are problems no journalist can feel safe. I only object to the fact that you only refer such a situation only to Russia. We have all kinds of religious minorities. The difference is that people who write about them or criticize them don&#39;t get killed. I have written about human rights violations in other countries as well, the United States and China, for example, and I can assure you that I&#39;ll keep on doing that whenever I see something worth writing about. I&#39;ll even write about any such violation in Finland. CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#563077Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:56:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:563077Dew 200749http://www.englishforums.com/English/FreedomSpeechRussiaChinaOther-Countries/4/glkmw/Post.htm#563077http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments28-563077.xmlI am glad that you live in Finnland - a quiet country without much problems and different ethnic and religious groups. But wherever there are problems no journalist can feel safe. I only object to the fact that you only refer such a situation only to Russia.