ESL Common English Questions and Answers - Archived Posts

Re: Apostrophes

Mister Micawber — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:29:00 GMT

A little late getting back to you, Rob, sorry. You're pretty much on your own with extreme reductions such as that-- whatever makes it most intelligible for the reader. I think I would transcribe it as 'S up?.

What's up?

Guest — Sat, 09 Apr 2005 17:33:41 GMT

A friend an I are having the following argument:

"What's up?"
is it s'up or 'sup?

thanks, rob.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Guest — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:03:56 GMT

My question covers the proper use of the apostrophe. Which of the following two versions is the correct use of the apostrophe?
a) Prue and Antony's Wedding
b) Prue and Antonys' Wedding

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Mister Micawber — Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:31:52 GMT

If you wish to indicate the both of you, it needs to be Van Dalfsens' Men's and Womens' Clothing, with the apostrophe after the 's'. That is certainly a plethora of apostrophes, however, and I submit to you that Van Dalfsen Men's and Women's Clothing (with no 's' or apostrophe), a more traditional form, might be preferable.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Guest — Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:19:38 GMT

My wife and I own a Men's and Women's Clothing boutique. Our last name is Van Dalfsen. Because we both together own the business, and because we are implying that the store belongs to us (possessive), is Van Dalfsen's correct?

Reason being we had a press release the other day and a former english teacher called me to tell me that she thought Van Dalfsen's is incorrect if the store belongs equally to my wife and I.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Guest — Sun, 16 Jan 2005 11:35:13 GMT

I am continually stunned by the fact that so few sources seem to realise the logic that lies behind their own rules. I have heard whacky rules that suggests that ancient or biblical names ending with s are exceptions, or words of more than one syllable ending with s.

The 'eez' thing here is at least in the right ballpark. The rule should be that if the final s is immediately preceded by a vowel with no other consonant in between, it's a candidate for dropping the extra s. So JesUs is a candidate, as is SocratEs, but not JAmes, whose final vowel sound is the A, not the E, and has an M between it and the S.

That's not the entire story, though, inasmuch as it's really the awkwardness of pronunciation which should tell you. James's doesn't sound awkward at all (it has a 'ziz' sound). Jesus's does ('zuzz-ziz'). Morris's seems to be okay, though.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Casi — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 17:49:30 GMT

You should put the apostrophe before the -s, like this,

I am going to Benetton's department store.
I am going to Benetton's.

Also,

I am going to Mary's house.
I am going to Mary's.

I am going to Casi's house.
I am going to Casi's.

Also, if the name ends in an -s, then you don't have to add an -s. All you have to add is an apostrophe, like this,

I am going to Mr. Jones' house.
I am going to Mr. Jones'.

I am going to Jess' house.
I am going to Jess'.

All the best,

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Mister Micawber — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 10:51:39 GMT

Hi CL,

Just 'I'm going to Benetton'-- it's not a family name ( to my knowledge, and is certainly not advertised as such), and is not plural.

You can say, of course, whatever you wish, so long as it is understood by your listener.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

barbara — Sun, 09 Jan 2005 10:06:19 GMT

The name of the retail store is Benetton. Would it be correct to say, I am going to Benettons'.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

meyersw1971 — Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:48:28 GMT

Actually this is the first time I have posted. I am a novice, thank you for the answer.

I also found an opinion in the The Chicago Manual of Style. "Jesus' (along with Moses' and names of more than one syllable with an unaccented ending pronounced eez) is among the traditional exceptions to the general rule for forming the possessive. There is no extra "s"âspelled or pronounced." The Chicago Manual notes that this practice began "for reasons of euphony."

I don't have access to the manual but found it quoted on the NC State web site. http://www.ncsu.edu/ncsu/grammar/Apostro3.html

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Mister Micawber — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 05:46:41 GMT

I think the answer is back up this thread somewhere, but I'll reiterate-- or at least give the popular (?!) view: Jesus, Socrates, Moses, and other Biblical and Classical individuals are traditionally exempt from the general modern rule to add 's to anything singular. Hence: Moses' basket, Socrates' hemlock, Jesus' disciples, but Harris's jacket, James's pet aardvark.

(Finnegans Wake is of course unique.)

Oops! I see I did not answer your question! Pronounce it as if the 's were there: /dzi:z?s?z/.

PS: How about registering, CL, as long as you're joining in so frequently, and leaving the grey ranks of anonymity? You're more than welcome.

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Guest — Fri, 08 Oct 2004 01:57:59 GMT

I need a specific question answered. It would have to do with the pronunciation of Jesus'. It is used to show possession, "Jesus' disciples". Could anyone help?

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

PoorRichard — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:32:25 GMT

Interestingly, the possessive pronoun ITS was a relatively late addition to the language; it doesn't appear in the King James Version (1611) of the Bible, for instance. The question of whether ITS should contain an apostrophe wasn't settled till the early 19th century, and both forms were used before then.

(For example, in some editions of Jane Austen's Pride & Prejudice there are formations such as: "neither the letter nor it's writer were in any degree interesting".)

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

PoorRichard — Tue, 05 Oct 2004 14:15:08 GMT

Another use of the apostrophe is in the locative case, e.g.

1. I'm staying round Fred's tonight.
2. Are you going to Sainsbury's?
3. I was over at your cousin's last week.

In the locative, the sense is 'at the place of', i.e.

1. I'm staying round Fred's [house] tonight.
2. Are you going to Sainsbury's [store]?
3. I was over at your cousin's [place] last week.

To return to the original question, we could therefore also simply call the establishment HARPER'S (if it refers to just one Harper).

Re: Proper use of the apostrophe (Guest:clreilly)

Guest — Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:13:22 GMT

Thank you very much!