http://www.englishforums.com/English/FrequentlyAskedEnglishQuestions-AnswersArchivedPosts/Forum31.htmArea designed to store the most commonly asked questions and their accepted answers.enXMOD (Build: 3607.32596)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#106524Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:106524Mister Micawber0http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#106524http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-106524.xmlA little late getting back to you, Rob, sorry. You're pretty much on your own with extreme reductions such as that-- whatever makes it most intelligible for the reader. I think I would transcribe it as 'S up? .http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#88480Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:88480Guest1http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#88480http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-88480.xmlA friend an I are having the following argument: "What's up?" is it s'up or 'sup? thanks, rob.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#82123Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:82123Guest2http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#82123http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-82123.xmlMy question covers the proper use of the apostrophe. Which of the following two versions is the correct use of the apostrophe? a) Prue and Antony's Wedding b) Prue and Antonys' Weddinghttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#69516Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:69516Mister Micawber3http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/6/vnq/Post.htm#69516http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-69516.xmlIf you wish to indicate the both of you, it needs to be Van Dalfsens' Men's and Womens' Clothing , with the apostrophe after the 's'. That is certainly a plethora of apostrophes, however, and I submit to you that Van Dalfsen Men's and Women's Clothing (with no 's' or apostrophe), a more traditional form, might be preferable.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#69487Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:69487Guest4http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#69487http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-69487.xmlMy wife and I own a Men's and Women's Clothing boutique. Our last name is Van Dalfsen. Because we both together own the business, and because we are implying that the store belongs to us (possessive), is Van Dalfsen's correct? Reason being we had a press release the other day and a former english teacher called me to tell me that she thought Van Dalfsen's is incorrect if the store belongs equally to my wife and I.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#67965Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:67965Guest5http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#67965http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-67965.xmlI am continually stunned by the fact that so few sources seem to realise the logic that lies behind their own rules. I have heard whacky rules that suggests that ancient or biblical names ending with s are exceptions, or words of more than one syllable ending with s. The 'eez' thing here is at least in the right ballpark. The rule should be that if the final s is immediately preceded by a vowel with no other consonant in between, it's a candidate for dropping the extra s. So JesUs is a candidate, as is SocratEs, but not JAmes, whose final vowel sound is the A, not the E, and has an M between it and the S. That's not the entire story, though, inasmuch as it's really the awkwardness of pronunciation which should tell you. James's...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#66566Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:66566Casi6http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#66566http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-66566.xmlYou should put the apostrophe before the -s, like this, I am going to Benetton's department store. I am going to Benetton's. Also, I am going to Mary's house. I am going to Mary's. I am going to Casi's house. I am going to Casi's. Also, if the name ends in an -s, then you don't have to add an -s. All you have to add is an apostrophe, like this, I am going to Mr. Jones' house. I am going to Mr. Jones'. I am going to Jess' house. I am going to Jess'. All the best,http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#66494Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:66494Mister Micawber7http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#66494http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-66494.xmlHi CL, Just 'I'm going to Benetton '-- it's not a family name ( to my knowledge, and is certainly not advertised as such), and is not plural. You can say, of course, whatever you wish, so long as it is understood by your listener.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#66491Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:66491barbara8http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#66491http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-66491.xmlThe name of the retail store is Benetton. Would it be correct to say, I am going to Benettons'.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49883Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:49883meyersw19719http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49883http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-49883.xmlActually this is the first time I have posted. I am a novice, thank you for the answer. I also found an opinion in the The Chicago Manual of Style. "Jesus' (along with Moses' and names of more than one syllable with an unaccented ending pronounced eez) is among the traditional exceptions to the general rule for forming the possessive. There is no extra "s"—spelled or pronounced." The Chicago Manual notes that this practice began "for reasons of euphony." I don't have access to the manual but found it quoted on the NC State web site. http://www.ncsu.edu/ncsu/grammar/Apostro3.htmlhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49492Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:49492Mister Micawber10http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49492http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-49492.xmlI think the answer is back up this thread somewhere, but I'll reiterate-- or at least give the popular (?!) view: Jesus, Socrates, Moses, and other Biblical and Classical individuals are traditionally exempt from the general modern rule to add 's to anything singular. Hence: Moses' basket, Socrates' hemlock, Jesus' disciples , but Harris's jacket, James's pet aardvark. ( Finnegans Wake is of course unique.) Oops! I see I did not answer your question! Pronounce it as if the 's were there: /dzi:z?s?z/. PS: How about registering, CL, as long as you're joining in so frequently, and leaving the grey ranks of anonymity? You're more than welcome.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49467Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:49467Guest11http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49467http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-49467.xmlI need a specific question answered. It would have to do with the pronunciation of Jesus'. It is used to show possession, "Jesus' disciples". Could anyone help?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49098Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:49098PoorRichard12http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/5/vnq/Post.htm#49098http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-49098.xmlInterestingly, the possessive pronoun ITS was a relatively late addition to the language; it doesn't appear in the King James Version (1611) of the Bible, for instance. The question of whether ITS should contain an apostrophe wasn't settled till the early 19th century, and both forms were used before then. (For example, in some editions of Jane Austen's Pride & Prejudice there are formations such as: "neither the letter nor it's writer were in any degree interesting".)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#49097Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:49097PoorRichard13http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#49097http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-49097.xmlAnother use of the apostrophe is in the locative case, e.g. 1. I'm staying round Fred's tonight. 2. Are you going to Sainsbury's? 3. I was over at your cousin's last week. In the locative, the sense is 'at the place of', i.e. 1. I'm staying round Fred's tonight. 2. Are you going to Sainsbury's ? 3. I was over at your cousin's last week. To return to the original question, we could therefore also simply call the establishment HARPER'S (if it refers to just one Harper).http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#49002Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:49002Guest14http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#49002http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-49002.xmlThank you very much!http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#48573Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:48573Mister Micawber15http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#48573http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-48573.xml1. 'Summer's Web'. Since it is a title, all major words are capitalized, so there is no orthographic difference between 'Summer' (the girl) and 'summer' (the season). 2. 'Water's Edge' but I don't know about Kalas Garden-- is the proper name 'Kala'? If so, 'Kala's Garden'; if it is 'Kalas', then 'Kalas' Garden'; if it is not possessive, but the name of the garden (like Cypress Gardens), then 'Kalas Garden'.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#48542Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:48542Guest16http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#48542http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-48542.xmlHello, I wondered if someone might be able to help me. I am getting my prints ready for a gallery showing, and I am confused about the proper punctuation for the following: 1. This picture is of a spider web. I want to title it Summers Web. Now, I have a niece named Summer, and if I wanted to title it specifically for her, would it be different than if I wanted to title it generally for the season of summer? 2. This picture is of flowers along a lake and I would like to title it Waters Edge or Kalas Garden. What would be proper use for either? Thank you very much in advance for your help. Bethhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#44025Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:44025Guest17http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#44025http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-44025.xmlHello, For the following, which one is correct usage of an apostrophe? (a) The Graphic Professionals' Resource Network (b) The Graphic Professional's Resource Network Reading through the other posts it seems that the first one would be correct as I'm referring to a network of many professional people. However, the network exists to serve each person individually. thanks!http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#43036Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:43036Mister Micawber18http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#43036http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-43036.xmlHi Roison, Welcome to English Forums. No, the number of syllables is irrelevant. Yes, the nature of the possessed is irrelevant; I think our guest was thinking of 'the table's leg'.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#43022Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:43022roisin19http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#43022http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-43022.xmlJust a quick note on the James's / Socrates' question. I was always taught that this use of the apostrophe in connection with a Name was resloved on the number of syllables in the name. So it is Yeats's poem (Yeats has only one syllable) versus Socrates' writings (Socrates has two syllables) And to reply to Guest's question - non-material possession is irrelevant isn't it? It's all possession, whether it's Guest's hair or Guest's question.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#42937Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:42937Guest20http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#42937http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-42937.xmlok... i have learnt the use of the apostrophe but i am still quite confused, for example, it is said that the apostrophe must be used to state the property or belonging of itmes (Ron's room for instance) however, what about non material things such as.. opinions? (Ron's opinion) and if this is the case, then, when I should say The opinion of Ron?.. pls help me!http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#38982Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:38982miriam21http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/4/vnq/Post.htm#38982http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-38982.xmlIt's "ifs and buts", without the apostrophe. In this expression, you are using the plural of "if" and "but". The "s" is the inflectional suffix for the plural; it becomes part of the word it is added to. Miriamhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#38868Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:38868maj22http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#38868http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-38868.xmlI am afraid there are too many if’s and but’s for me to approve the plan. Would it be possible to say I am afraid there are too many ifs and buts for me to approve the plan. What should we understand here? Thanks in advance for your help.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#38865Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:38865Aastha23http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#38865http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-38865.xmlAs Taken from one of the site. Briefly, we can say that apostrophes have three uses: 1) To show possession in nouns We add an apostrophe and "s" after all singular nouns and after plural nouns that do not end in "s": Susan’s book; Pete’s dog; the children’s toys; the men’s room. We add an apostrophe without "s" after plural nouns ending in "s": The Beckhams’ mansion; the dogs’ dinners. Note that we do not use apostrophes with the possessive pronouns hers, its, ours and yours, but we do use them with possessive pronouns that end in "-one" or "-body": Give the cat its dinner; Those books are ours. It must be somebody’s; Everyone’s papers are on the table. 2) To represent missing letters We use apostrophes...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#38021Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:38021Guest24http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#38021http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-38021.xmlI thought you were quoting Poe's short story, "The Black Cat", The two differences were that the cat was pevish and avoiding her owner because of the "instrumentality of the Fiend Intemperance" (he'd had a violent drunken bender), and he did remove one of the cat's eyes, but it was more graphically described -- involving a pen knife. (The cat does get him in the end.) Anyway, I was just doing a Google search on the subject of the apostrophe used in proper names ending with an 's'. One of the hints I'd read in a Chicago-style help book was to listen for the extra sylable in the pronouciation. For instance: It was quoted in William Gaddis's "The Recognitions" Williams last name is pronouced Gaddis-ez in the possesive. (I don't...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#29293Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:29293Guest25http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#29293http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-29293.xmlThank you for the clarification. "It's" is a bad habit I grew up with. No cats were harmed in the writing of this post.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#29230Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:29230Guest26http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#29230http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-29230.xmlApart from this being a deeply sinister post (have the animal welfare people been informed? ), the use of "it's" is wrong. "It's" is ALWAYS a contraction of: "It is", never a possessive pronoun.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#29223Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:29223Guest27http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#29223http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-29223.xmlHow about if the apostrophe is being added to a pronoun? For example: The cat eyed me suspiciously so I removed it's eyes. Is the apostrophe appropriate? If not is "it's" only appropriate when contracting "it is"?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#26791Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:26791Guest28http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#26791http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-26791.xmlActually, you are both correct. It depends on whether you want to use the traditional or the popular style. If the name is "James," we can show possession in two ways: e.g. "James' car." OR "James's car." It all depends on stylehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#26265Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:26265Guest29http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#26265http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-26265.xmlIs this sentence correct? (Poulton is a last name, and there are two of them.) "The Poultons' brains are composed entirely of waste products."http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#23049Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:23049rommie30http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/3/vnq/Post.htm#23049http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-23049.xmlWow! So many opinions. I'd go with Orpheus, but with the understanding that there are exceptions. Personally, I tend to break this rule whenever the result is difficult to pronounce - which I think would include "Socrates'". Rommiehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#23013Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:23013Guest31http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#23013http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-23013.xmlIt'd be "The Smiths"http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#16582Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:16582Guest32http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#16582http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-16582.xmlHow about a last name being used to end a letter or invitation (i.e. last name of Smith). Is it The Smiths, The Smith's, or The Smiths'?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#4689Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:4689hitchhiker33http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#4689http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-4689.xmlThen it would be " the Harpers' bar" - In this case, Harper was given as the name, like the name of a grandfather or something.. John Harper's bar etc..http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#4598Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:4598kitkattail34http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#4598http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-4598.xmlYou know, getting back to the original question, if it is a family-owned business, then isn't there more than one Harper after all?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#4562Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:4562moijelesuis35http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#4562http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-4562.xmlthen there is the surname James. if Mr. and Mrs. James James (or Robert James, if you prefer) invited people to their home, the invited guests could say, "we are headed over to the Jameses for cocktails." (here it is a plural, not a possessive!)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1478Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1478Orpheus36http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1478http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1478.xmlI think I didn't say it clearly. What I meant is Socrates' is the common way to write it and it's just one of many exceptions.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1455Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1455Jacko37http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1455http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1455.xmlAlso about the nouns, that would be called joint possession . If two nouns jointly own a possession, then you add 's to the last noun. If two nouns have individual possession of the noun, then you add 's to both. (I said 's, but you should use ' whenever necessary). Example. Adam and Eve's garden. It is either Adam's or Eve's decision. In the first sentence, Adam and Eve co-own the garden. While in the second sentence, Adam doesn't own Eve's decision, nor Eve does own Adam's decision.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1454Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1454Jacko38http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1454http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1454.xmlI am not entirely sure, but I guess it would be Cervantes's, Don Quixote's, or Socrates's ideas . You can also remove the 's from Cervantes's and Socrates's. The rule is if the non is singular and ends in s , then you should add 's . But if it will sound awkward, then you may choose to omit it. Either one is acceptable.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1452Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1452Orpheus39http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/2/vnq/Post.htm#1452http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1452.xmlI think there are exceptions, and those two are some of the exceptions. According to Michael Swan in Practical English Usage, sometimes we add an apostrophe to a singular noun ending in 's' in older and foreign names. But just sometimes, Dickens is still written Dickens's novels. Tough question, Maj.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1435Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1435maj40http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1435http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1435.xmlYou are probably right; but what about Cervantes' Don Quixote or Socrates' ideas?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1434Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1434Orpheus41http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1434http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1434.xmlIt's James's, Maj.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1427Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1427maj42http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1427http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1427.xmlwhat about James? James's or James'?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1425Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1425Jacko43http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1425http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1425.xmlI would like to clear the last of the two rules I posted just above this post. ... If the noun is plural and ends in s , then add ' only.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1423Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1423Jacko44http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1423http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1423.xmlIf the noun is singular and ends in s , then add 's . If the noun is plural and ends in s , then add ' only.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1422Thu, 21 May 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1422Orpheus45http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1422http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1422.xmlThis is what I know: If the family name is Harper, then the correct way to write it would be Harper's. If the family name is Harpers, then Harpers's would be the correct one.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1399Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1399Jacko46http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1399http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1399.xmlJust to add to Jason13_32's reply, there is another use for apostrophe that MLA recommends. Although at present, an apostrophe is no longer needed for plural numbers, letters, abbreviations, and words mentioned as words, it makes sense to put one on some, if not on all, of them. Take this for example: A's is not as vague as As.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1394Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1394Jason13_3247http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htm#1394http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1394.xmlThe apostrophe is used for two things only: To signify two words joined: What is = What's To signify possesion, here's the confussion: Your bar would be "Harper's Bar" because there's only one "Harper". If you were all nuns it would be "Nuns' Bar" - Many nuns - the apostrophe is used after the "s" or "At the zoo, the children were most interested in seeing the lions' den." - Many lionshttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htmTue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:23 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1393Guest48http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseOfTheApostrophe/vnq/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-1393.xmlWhen trying to show possession in regard to a family owned business, would it be proper to display "Harpers' Bar" or "Harper's Bar". What is the difference between the two?