http://www.englishforums.com/English/FrequentlyAskedEnglishQuestions-AnswersArchivedPosts/Forum31.htmArea designed to store the most commonly asked questions and their accepted answers.enXMOD (Build: 3607.32596)http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#221530Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:221530Cool Breeze0http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#221530http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-221530.xmlJussive wrote: Being as Mister Micawber doesn't seem like he's going to come back to me on this, can someone else here read my last post and say something (agree or disagree). If you disagree please point out why. Thanks There is nothing wrong with your definition of collective noun . Grammatical terms can often be defined in several ways and the fact that people understand them differently frequently causes misunderstandings. Also, there is no point in trying to make the English language consistent and logical. All such efforts are bound to fail.http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#221154Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:221154Anonymous1http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#221154http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-221154.xmlcollective nouns are the whole picture of groupes not one part e.g. a groupe of people , or furniture meaning more than one item intead of saying the table and chairs, side board,shelves and so on... furniture covers the lothttp://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#152547Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:152547Forbes2http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#152547http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-152547.xmlHaving read this thread several times I have come to the conclusion that some things defy analysis. I cannot think of a good reason why police cannot be singular when army and navy can.http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#149960Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:149960Jussive3http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/2/bmpmr/Post.htm#149960http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-149960.xmlBeing as Mister Micawber doesn't seem like he's going to come back to me on this, can someone else here read my last post and say something (agree or disagree). If you disagree please point out why. Thankshttp://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148113Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148113Jussive4http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148113http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-148113.xmlAnonymous wrote: (Oops! Didn't take time to log in-- MM) Well, I am now deep in the bowels of Quirk, et al , Jussive-- and I think there may be some--ahem!-- lack of clarity among everyone, including the texts, between group nouns and collective nouns, among other things. Group nouns (according to the book in my lap at the moment) are those you mention as taking an item of : a herd of cattle, a gaggle of geese , etc-- where herd (not cattle ) is the group noun. Here, they list family and committee , for instance, among the group nouns referring to people, with the comment that there is often a choice whether to use a singular or plural verb, based on notional concord-- i.e. what the speaker is thinking. Meanwhile, in another...http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148085Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148085Anonymous5http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148085http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-148085.xml(Oops! Didn't take time to log in-- MM) Well, I am now deep in the bowels of Quirk, et al , Jussive-- and I think there may be some--ahem!-- lack of clarity among everyone, including the texts, between group nouns and collective nouns, among other things. Group nouns (according to the book in my lap at the moment) are those you mention as taking an item of : a herd of cattle, a gaggle of geese , etc-- where herd (not cattle ) is the group noun. Here, they list family and committee , for instance, among the group nouns referring to people, with the comment that there is often a choice whether to use a singular or plural verb, based on notional concord-- i.e. what the speaker is thinking. Meanwhile, in another section...http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148083Sun, 22 Mar 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148083Jussive6http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148083http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-148083.xmlMister Micawber wrote: No, luggage and equipment are merely non-count nouns. Police and people are unmarked plurals (like cattle )-- this is also a characteristic of collective nouns. If people were a collective noun, then surely children, sheep and mice would also be-- but these are just different ways of pluralizing. Hm, well, at least one book I have on writing refers to luggage and clothing as collective nouns as they are a collection of items and we can use the words 'an item of' with them, unlike the uncountable nouns such as air or sand . I can't see how police or cattle are unmarked plurals. That being the case, what are the their singular forms?http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148069Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148069Mister Micawber7http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148069http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-148069.xmlNo, luggage and equipment are merely non-count nouns. Police and people are unmarked plurals (like cattle )-- this is also a characteristic of collective nouns. If people were a collective noun, then surely children, sheep and mice would also be-- but these are just different ways of pluralizing.http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148062Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:148062Jussive8http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#148062http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-148062.xmlMister Micawber wrote: (The above post was edited for type size only.) My understanding is that a collective noun is one which, though appearing in a singular form, can be considered-- grammatically-- either as a singular entity or as a group of individuals, so that it is in concord (depending on context) with both singular and plural verbs . Thus, the classic case: My family is going to Guam vs My family are feuding again . Collective nouns also vary regionally, so that BrE may use a collective in the plural where AmE uses the same in the singular-- e.g. the team is/are . School may well be one of these. However, there are many nouns out there that are in reality groups of individuals, but would not be classified as collective...http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#147312Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:147312Mister Micawber9http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#147312http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-147312.xml(The above post was edited for type size only.) My understanding is that a collective noun is one which, though appearing in a singular form, can be considered-- grammatically-- either as a singular entity or as a group of individuals, so that it is in concord (depending on context) with both singular and plural verbs . Thus, the classic case: My family is going to Guam vs My family are feuding again . Collective nouns also vary regionally, so that BrE may use a collective in the plural where AmE uses the same in the singular-- e.g. the team is/are . School may well be one of these. However, there are many nouns out there that are in reality groups of individuals, but would not be classified as collective nouns...http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#147260Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:147260Jussive10http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#147260http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-147260.xmlAnonymous wrote: Also, would the name of a specific school be collective. Obviously, a specific school would be a proper noun, but it also would behave like a group noun (a type of collective noun), that is, if you were referring to the school as a collection of its members (students, teachers and other staff, perhaps). Group nouns are nouns such asgovernment, army, band , etc. There is some dispute as to whether these types of nouns can or should take a plural verb. Technically speaking, I don’t know if a proper noun can actually be termed as a group noun. Maybe Mister Micawber can enlighten us on that.http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#147178Sun, 22 Feb 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:147178Mister Micawber11http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htm#147178http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-147178.xmlNot normally; I can't seem to make a sentence with a plural verb and the singular subject: The high school is closed. Hinsdale High School is closed. All the high schools in Illinois are closed. The high school is hosting a track meet. The high school is discussing the revised GPA requirements.http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htmSun, 22 Feb 2009 04:16:09 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:147016Anonymous12http://www.englishforums.com/English/CollectiveNounsGroupNouns/bmpmr/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments31-147016.xmlIs the word "High school" a collective noun. Also, would the name of a specific school be collective.