ESL Linguistics Discussion Forum

Re: before

nona the brit — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:17:53 GMT

Ok enough already!

This has left the original topic and is not helping anyone.

www, you cannot make insulting comments on this forum such as the ones you made to Rho. We discuss and debate in a polite manner here.

I'm not going to let this disintegrate any further into the playground. Topic closed.

Thank you.

Re: before

Wwwdotcom — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:11:45 GMT

Doing further research, I have found a site which mimics my posts:

SUBORDINATE CONJUNCTIONS MUST BE READ AS PART OF THE CLAUSE; YOU CANNOT LEAVE THE SUBORDINATE CONJUNCTION OUT WHEN TESTING FOR A COMPLETE THOUGHT.

http://www.readbygrade3.com/conj.html

I. Co-ordinate conjunctions -- join words or word groups of equal rank

A. Simple co-ordinate conjunctions -- and, or, nor, but, yet, (sometimes) for (Remember: BOY FAN)

B. Correlative co-ordinate conjunctions --// whether...or// //either...or// //neither...nor// //both...and// //not only...but also// (Remember: TWINS)

YOU MAY READ A CLAUSE WITHOUT SAYING THE CO-ORDINATE CONJUNCTION(S) WHEN TESTING FOR A COMPLETE THOUGHT.

II. Subordinate conjunctions -- used to introduce adverb clauses

*after, although, *as, as if, because, *before, if, *since, so that, than, unless, even though, *until, when, where, while, that, though, whenever, wherever, whether, as long as, as though, in order that, provided, *till, whatever (*words are on both preposition list and conjunction list)

Re: before

Wwwdotcom — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:30:41 GMT

Rho,

Ok, I'll play your game. Take your own medicine, fight fire with fire.

"{Q1}. Are you intentionally ignoring the difference between 'before/after' as an adverb and 'before/after' as a conjunction ?"

Are you intentionally making that assertion? Before and After are different by definition.

"{Q2}. If you are teaching English in Kyoto you must be using some textbook. Please mention that textbook."

Do you have a source? Please tell me the source you use.

Re: before

Rho — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:24:20 GMT

Rho, this is obvious you are not being honest and sincere.
.........................................................................

Hello MrX.
Your answer was just what I've been expected.
It's really silly of me. I deeply regret now that I butted in.

By the way my questions was:
{Q1}. Are you intentionally ignoring the difference between 'before/after' as an adverb and 'before/after' as a conjunction ?
{Q2}. If you are teaching English in Kyoto you must be using some textbook. Please mention that textbook.

If you have an additional answer please email me; otherwise I'm afraid I'll miss it.

Re: before

Wwwdotcom — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:33:38 GMT

julielai,

Hello, perhaps you can help in the matter. What sources do you use to explain the use of after and before?

Re: before

julielai — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:31:54 GMT

Hi guys,

We're just having a friendly discussion here. No need to be worked up over it.

Re: before

Wwwdotcom — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:21:00 GMT

Conus Lotus,

The post was not for you. Since you have asked, I will try to explain to you. Posts are relative to the person you are posting to, so I can understand why you may not get the point I was making.

I was trying to explain why "before 10 years from now" isolates 10 specific years before some action might occur. If you said "after 10 years", it does not isolate any time after 10 years.

If you rent a movie at a movie store, you usually have 2 or 3 days before you have to return the movie without a late fee. That time is set by the store, and you are NOT charged with a late fee if you return the movie before the due date. If you don't mind paying a late fee, you could return the movie after the due date. This time is not set, and you could return the movie 3 days, 4 days, 5 days, etc.... after the due date and pay a late fee. This time is not isolated, at least not until the action of returning the movie is completed. Then, we can determine how long you had the movie after the due date. However, the time before the due date is constant. It is still 2 or 3 days. Even if you returned the movie after just 1 night, you still would have had 1 or 2 more days you could have kept the movie before being charged with a late fee.

Re: before

Conus Lotus — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:13:29 GMT

Thanks WWW.

I sincerely appreciate your effort.
I have no problem whatsoever with the usage of before or after, I just found your diagramming a bit puzzling.

Thanks

Re: before

Wwwdotcom — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:58:13 GMT

Conus Lotus,

The answer starts with you. Make some sentences using "after" and "before". We can better help you this way.

What do you do after you wake up? (you can answer this question or make up your own)

Re: before

Wwwdotcom — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 12:33:32 GMT

Rho,

Ok, this is obvious you are not being honest and sincere. You are intentionally playing dumb. You seem to be convinced that I have some "source" which I am not divulging. I have presented examples and given various explanations.

If you still want to antagonize someone, email about.com

"These type of clauses are often called "time clauses" in English grammar books and follow specific patterns. Take a look at the chart below to study the various usage of different time expressions."

http://esl.about.com/library/grammar/blgr_adverbclauses_time.htm

With pictures http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/esl/esladjadv.html

I also like this one http://www.ccsn.nevada.edu/english/lab/FRAGMNT.htm

"The adverb clause should be in the same sentence with the verb it modifies."

Re: before

Rho — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:43:50 GMT

So am I :）
....................................................................................................................
Don't forget my questions, too, MrX ;-）Did you say: ask me everything, didn't you ?

{Q1}. Are you intentionally ignoring the difference between 'before/after' as an adverb and 'before/after' as a conjunction ?

{Q2}. If you are teaching English in Kyoto you must be using some textbook. Please mention that textbook.
Seems ...umm... quite interesting.

(Drop me a line when you have spare time. If you prefer, you can answer me by email. I'm not in a hurry.)

Re: before

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:16:43 GMT

So am I

Re: before

Conus Lotus — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:44:33 GMT

Wwwdotcom wrote:

minus signs = NOT = where you see the no smoking sign
plus signs = Possible action of some event = outside

NOW(--------isolated time-------------)10 years after++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ and so on....................++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.............and so on++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++........and________

The plus signs never end because the proposal could take place anytime after 10 years from now, but the minus signs start and stop at a specific time. Similarily, you cannot smoke where the minus signs are, but you can smoke anywhere outside the restaurant. Where you go is your choice. The sky's the limit!!!

I
AM SO
LOST

Re: before

Rho — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:05:17 GMT

There should be an anonymous post and it's mine. To make sure.

Re: before

Anonymous — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:58:16 GMT

Hello MrX. It's funny. I see. This is what you've been insisting.

Okay. Now I'd like to ask your favour. Since I've spent a lot of time in this thread I have a right to ask.

I've asked you several times the following two questions.

QUESTION ONE. Are you intentionally ignoring the difference between 'before/after' as an adverb and 'before/after' as a conjunction ??

QUESTION TWO. If you are teaching English in Kyoto you must be using some textbook. Please mention that textbook. Seems ...umm... quite interesting.

Please be kind with me!