http://www.englishforums.com/English/LinguisticsDiscussionForum/Forum35.htmGet into the nitty-gritty of the language.enXMOD (Build: 3614.32638)http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#415083Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:415083Alienvoord0http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#415083http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-415083.xmlYou're welcome! I wouldn't say they have an aversion to two apostrophes in one word. I think they're just describing the fact that we usually don't put two apostrophes in one word - except for fo'c'sle .http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414931Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414931Cool Breeze1http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414931http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414931.xmlAlienvoord wrote: What's so wrong with some variation anyway? Many thanks, Alienvoord. I have never seen plurals like Jones's used in modern English, but if they are palatable to native speakers, it only adds to the colorfulness (and confusion) of English. Actually, variation is what I often look for in English. The extremely rigid word order is one hindrance to that. I get the impression from the quotation that the authors have an aversion to two apostrophes in one word. I wonder how they would write: He is a friend of the Joneses'. He is a friend of the Jones's. He is a friend of the Jones's'. (?) Never mind. This apostrophe of plurality is a good example of the state English is in at the moment owing to there not being a...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414786Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414786Alienvoord2http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414786http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414786.xml--- There was formerly a respectable tradition (17-19c) of using the apostrophe for noun plurals, especially in loanwords ending in a vowel (as in We do confess Errata's, Leonard Lichfield, 1641, and Comma's are used, Philip Luckcombe, 1771) and in the consonants s, z, ch, sh, (as in waltz's and cotillions, Washington Irving, 1804). Although this practice is rare in 20c standard usage, the apostrophe of plurality continues in at least five areas: (1) with abbreviations such as V.I.P.'s or VIP's, although such forms as VIPs are now widespread. (2) With letters of the alphabet, as in His i's are just like his a's and Dot your i's and cross your t's. In the phrase do's and don'ts, the apostrophe of plurality occurs in the first word but...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414664Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414664Cool Breeze3http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414664http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414664.xmlAlienvoord wrote: [ It is a standard variant, according to the Oxford Companion to the English Language. You'll have to take it up with them. Most interesting, Alienvoord. I don't think I'll be able to take this plural up with the authors of the book, but would it be too much trouble if you, please, quoted verbatim what the book says about plurals like Jones's ? You'd do a language enthusiast a big favor. Regardless of what it says, I won't change my mind, though. I think it's plainly wrong. CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414635Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414635Alienvoord4http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414635http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414635.xmlGrammar Geek wrote: It's highly non standard in my experience. Granted, different countries have different styles. You say that "The Davis's are all coming to dinner" is the correct way to write something that says that the entire Davis family is coming? It is a standard variant, according to the Oxford Companion to the English Language. You'll have to take it up with them. Cool Breeze wrote: Alienvoord wrote: You don't have to agree, but the fact is that these are standard uses. If a noun ends in s , the standard plural ending is es. It makes no difference whether the noun is a common noun or a prophttp://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414581Sun, 24 May 2009 13:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414581Cool Breeze5http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/2/cdxxd/Post.htm#414581http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414581.xmlAlienvoord wrote: You don't have to agree, but the fact is that these are standard uses. If a noun ends in s , the standard plural ending is es. It makes no difference whether the noun is a common noun or a proper noun: She bought a dress. She bought two dresses. (NOT: dress's ) CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#414570Sun, 24 May 2009 13:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414570Grammar Geek6http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#414570http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414570.xmlIt's highly non standard in my experience. Granted, different countries have different styles. You say that "The Davis's are all coming to dinner" is the correct way to write something that says that the entire Davis family is coming?http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#414556Sun, 24 May 2009 13:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414556Alienvoord7http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#414556http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414556.xmlYou don't have to agree, but the fact is that these are standard uses.http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#414447Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:414447Cool Breeze8http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#414447http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-414447.xmlAlienvoord wrote: According to some sources, like the Oxford Companion to the English Language, the apostrophe used to mark the plural with acronyms (VIP's), decades (1970's), and family names (the Jones's) is standard. Hi Alienvoord I agree on all points except the last one (Jones's). Singular: Mr Jones is here. Mr Jones's car is here. Plural: The Joneses are here. (NOT: The Jones's are here. ) The Joneses' car is here. CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#407976Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:407976Alienvoord9http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#407976http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-407976.xmlMatress wrote: Plurals of multi-letter combinations and plurals of numerals end in s with no apostrophe, e.g. VIPs, 1000s. According to some sources, like the Oxford Companion to the English Language, the apostrophe used to mark the plural with acronyms (VIP's), decades (1970's), and family names (the Jones's) is standard.http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#407958Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:407958Grammar Geek10http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#407958http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-407958.xmlThe children's teacher was late to class. Is your question why it shouldn't be "the childrens' teacher..."? The rules of English are just like that -- words like children or people , which are plural, take a 's, not a s'.http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#407929Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:407929Anonymous11http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#407929http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-407929.xmlI din't understand..if anyone can explain plzzzzzzzzzz.....children is already plural...then why do we add 's????????http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#192028Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:24:33 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:192028Lazarus12http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#192028http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-192028.xmlForbes wrote: "Mathematics" is not possesive here and in any event functions as singular . One says "mathematics is a science". I would write "mathematics teacher" without any apostrophe, just as I write "music teacher". I just add that "mathematics(') rules" sounds a bit odd - I think I would say "the rules of mathematics". That's an interesting one. Couldn't it be said that "mathematics' rules" is awkward, but also could be correct? In that context, I can see the apostrophe needed and the apostrophe not needed, depending on the meaning. If you had a textbook titled "Mathematics Rules" or if you loved algebra, so you sang out "Mathematics Rules!" you wouldn't need an apostrophe. However, as you say Forbes, if...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#186354Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:24:33 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:186354Forbes13http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htm#186354http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-186354.xmlHowever, if the next word begins with s, then add only an apostrophe, e.g. witness' story . That's a new one on me! Possessive of plural nouns that are singular in meaning are formed by adding only an apostrophe, e.g. mathematics' rules. "Mathematics" is not possesive here and in any event functions as singular . One says "mathematics is a science". I would write "mathematics teacher" without any apostrophe, just as I write "music teacher". I just add that "mathematics(') rules" sounds a bit odd - I think I would say "the rules of mathematics".http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htmFri, 24 Apr 2009 13:24:33 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:186068Matress14http://www.englishforums.com/English/Apostrophe/cdxxd/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-186068.xmlApostrophe ( ' ) The apostrophe is used when leaving out a letter or number in a contraction, e.g. can't, wouldn't. The apostrophe is used for omitted letters, e.g. rock 'n' roll, and for omitted numbers, e.g. the class of '72, the '20s. The apostrophe is used for plurals of letter abbreviations with periods and single letters, e.g. p's and q's, two A's and four B's. Plurals of multi-letter combinations and plurals of numerals end in s with no apostrophe, e.g. VIPs, 1000s. The possessive of singular nouns ending in s, including nouns ending in s, x, z, ch, or sh, is formed by adding 's, e.g. witness's affidavit. However, if the next word begins with s, then add only an apostrophe, e.g. witness' story. The possessive...