ESL Linguistics Discussion Forum

Re: Whose property?

Anonymous — Sat, 12 May 2007 13:09:41 GMT

hi to all.
i'm doing a thesis about this argoument.
i'm analising the spread and the influence of english in the word.i have written a Multiple_Choice Questionnarie.if have time i would be very happy if you could answer it.thank you very much.bye

Re: Whose property?

MrPedantic — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:50:51 GMT

In addition to MiJ's comment: if you save your post via File | Save As as e.g. an .mht file before posting, you will have a record of your comments.

MrP

Re: Whose property?

milky — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:06:03 GMT

Mike In Japan wrote:
Dear Milky,

Generally the only posts which get deleted are the abusive, the nonsensical, those written in foreign languages, and spam. We have had no reports of posts having gone strangely missing, other than yours. Might I suggest that if any of your posts goes strangely missing you forward a copy to one of our admins and we will make sure it appears.

Regards,
Mike

At least six post have gone missing. I will try posting this one and we'll see if it appears.

Re: Whose property?

Mike in Japan — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 05:35:40 GMT

Dear Milky,

Generally the only posts which get deleted are the abusive, the nonsensical, those written in foreign languages, and spam. We have had no reports of posts having gone strangely missing, other than yours. Might I suggest that if any of your posts goes strangely missing you forward a copy to one of our admins and we will make sure it appears.

Regards,
Mike

Re: Whose property?

milky — Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:24:42 GMT

Post :301701

All

I have replied to that post and a number of others, but my replies have not appeared. Just to let you know that I do reply to Mr Ps posts.

Re: Whose property?

MrPedantic — Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:53:34 GMT

Milky wrote:

<But stylistically and philosophically, the comment could only have been uttered by someone at a certain time, in a certain culture. >

Ask Mr P:

At which time and in which culture would that be?

Well, does this give you a clue?

"Strength Through Wisdom: A Critique of U.S. Capability. A Report to the President from the President's Commission on Foreign Language and International Studies."

MrP

Re: Whose property?

MrPedantic — Thu, 07 Dec 2006 23:47:02 GMT

Milky wrote:

Again, that post is MINE...

It's still a more sensible comment than the one you attribute to "Wilkes".

Here, on the other hand, I find myself a little bemused by your tone:

Milky wrote:

..."negotiate" means that students sometimes know what is good for them and sometimes they don't. Likewise, teachers sometimes know what is good for students and sometimes they don't. In such cases, negotiation can take place between the teacher and student (or school, company, HR director, etc).

1. Doesn't it strike you as a little, well, arrogant, to assume that when you're hired to teach English to a class of strict Shi'ite Muslims, it's your business to inflict your views about "the relativity of values" upon them? I'm not averse to a little relativism myself; but as far as I can see, native non-relativists seem to get by in English perfectly well.

2. Doesn't it show an absurdly high opinion of yourself, to assume that some of your students don't know what's good for them, in terms of ideology, but that you, somehow, do? You've been hired to teach English; not to play Master Po to their Little Grasshoppers.

3. Don't you think, on reflection, that the comments of yours I've quoted above could only be uttered by someone who rather looked down on his students?

MrP

Re: Whose property?

milky — Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:39:17 GMT

Ask Mr P:

At which time and in which culture would that be?

Re: Whose property?

milky — Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:20:36 GMT

<<So what would be your first step?>

Research well your teaching context. Listen. Accept. Don't impose. Discuss. Offer. Negotiate. Learn. >>

Again, that post is MINE and "negotiate" means that students sometimes know what is good for them and sometimes they don't. Likewise, teachers sometimes know what is good for students and sometimes they don't. In such cases, negotiation can take place between the teacher and student (or school, company, HR director, etc).

Re: Whose property?

MrPedantic — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:55:24 GMT

Anonymous wrote:

<So what would be your first step?>

Research well your teaching context. Listen. Accept. Don't impose. Discuss. Offer. Negotiate. Learn.

Thank you, Anon. That's an interesting suggestion, and much more sensible than the quotation from "Wilkes".

What do you mean by "negotiate", in this context?

All the best,

MrP

Re: Whose property?

MrPedantic — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:51:37 GMT

Anonymous wrote:

Did Mr P answer this question?

<Now, why do you think that Wilkes comment is solely Western in its thinking?>

Hello Anon

I withdrew "western", as it seemed to upset Milky; and besides, the provenance of the ideology was not relevant to the point.

But stylistically and philosophically, the comment could only have been uttered by someone at a certain time, in a certain culture.

Though if someone would like to produce a passage from Confucius that suggests otherwise, I'd be happy to look at it.

Have a cheery Thursday,

MrP

Re: Whose property?

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 19:39:38 GMT

Research well your teaching context. Listen. Accept. Don't impose. Discuss. Offer. Negotiate. Learn.

Re: Whose property?

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:19:34 GMT

Did Mr P answer this question?

<Now, why do you think that Wilkes comment is solely Western in its thinking?>

Re: Whose property?

Anonymous — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:18:28 GMT

Please ask Mr P if we have go back again to everything I've said about the dangers of imposing religious/cultural beliefs, philosophical thought and politcal stance on students? Shall we talk about the use of the modal "should", again? One's thoughts can remain in one's, they do not necessarily have to be taught.

NB "Have to be" is another modal expression, BTW.

Re: Whose property?

MrPedantic — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 13:19:25 GMT

Hello Milky

It seems you're unwilling to explain your interpretation of "humanistic", in the passage you quoted and agreed with.

That's a pity; but it leaves us free to examine the next significant phrase. Here's the passage again:

âForeign language instruction at any level should be a humanistic pursuit intended to sensitize students to other cultures, to the relativity of values, to appreciation of similarities among peoples and respect for the differences among them.â (Wilkes, p. 107)

Interestingly, the passage presents "relativity of values" as a fact, to which instructors, at any level, should sensitize their students.

Now suppose that you, Milky, were hired to teach English to an adherent of a religion that did not accept "relativity of values" as a fact. Perhaps the religion is a form of Christianity; perhaps a form of Islam.

The passage advocates however that you should sensitize your student to "the relativity of values". And as we have seen, you agree.

So what would be your first step?

MrP