http://www.englishforums.com/English/LinguisticsDiscussionForum/Forum35.htmGet into the nitty-gritty of the language.enXMOD (Build: 3607.32596)http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404707Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:404707milky0http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404707http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-404707.xmldōn (irreg.) do, act, cause, put, place ◈ ger. dōnne ◈ pres. part. dōnde ◈ 2nd sg. dēst ◈ 3rd sg. dēð ◈ 2nd pl. dōð ◈ 3rd pl. dōð ◈ imp. 2nd sg. dō ◈ opt. 2nd sg. dō ◈ 1st pl. dōn ◈ pret. 2nd sg. dydest ◈ 3rd sg. dyde ◈ 3rd pl. dydon ◈ pret. opt. 3rd sg. dydehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404704Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:404704milky1http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404704http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-404704.xmlMrPedantic wrote: I suspect that "would" preceded "used to", in ordinary usage. I don't have a pre-1300 example to hand; but the form is well established in Chaucer, e.g. "She was so charitable and so pitous, She wolde wepe , if that she sawe a mous Caught in a trappe, if it were deed or bledde." MrP No need for a pre-1300 example, would dates back to bef 900.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404691Sat, 23 May 2009 04:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:404691MrPedantic2http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404691http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-404691.xmlI suspect that "would" preceded "used to", in ordinary usage. I don't have a pre-1300 example to hand; but the form is well established in Chaucer, e.g. "She was so charitable and so pitous, She wolde wepe , if that she sawe a mous Caught in a trappe, if it were deed or bledde." MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404210Sat, 23 May 2009 04:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:404210milky3http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404210http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-404210.xmlMrPedantic wrote: I think the problem is that suggestions in Modern English may not meet the case; or may not seem to meet the case, because they'll be assessed in terms of Modern English. That's why I wondered whether you had any authentic examples. (I've looked for some pre-1300 examples with the structure "I did love her so", but haven't found any so far.) MrP Mr P, let me get this straight, are you saying that "used to" was not previously "did" and "was"? If so, what was the form that preceded "used to"? BTW, "For ryche men vse comunly Sweryn grete othys grysly."http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404199Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:404199MrPedantic4http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#404199http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-404199.xmlI think the problem is that suggestions in Modern English may not meet the case; or may not seem to meet the case, because they'll be assessed in terms of Modern English. That's why I wondered whether you had any authentic examples. (I've looked for some pre-1300 examples with the structure "I did love her so", but haven't found any so far.) MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#403762Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403762milky5http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#403762http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403762.xmlMrPedantic wrote: what's your take on the thread question regarding the negative form of "I did (didst) love her so"? Well, I think we would need some authentic examples, to answer that question. Pre-1300 Middle English is quite different from Modern English; here is a characteristic utterance from Sawles Warde, for instance: 1. Fearlac hire ontswereð: " Ich nat nawt þe time, for ha ne seide hit me nawt ; ah eauer lokið hwenne, for hire wune is to cumen bi stale ferliche ant unmundlunge hwen me least weneð. Of hire hird þet tu easkest, Ich þe ondswerie: ha lihteð hwer se ha eauer kimeð wið a þusent deoflen, ant euchan bereð a gret boc al of sunnen iwriten wið swarte smeale leattres, ant an unrude raketehe gledread...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#403756Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403756MrPedantic6http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#403756http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403756.xmlwhat's your take on the thread question regarding the negative form of "I did (didst) love her so"? Well, I think we would need some authentic examples, to answer that question. Pre-1300 Middle English is quite different from Modern English; here is a characteristic utterance from Sawles Warde, for instance: 1. Fearlac hire ontswereð: " Ich nat nawt þe time, for ha ne seide hit me nawt ; ah eauer lokið hwenne, for hire wune is to cumen bi stale ferliche ant unmundlunge hwen me least weneð. Of hire hird þet tu easkest, Ich þe ondswerie: ha lihteð hwer se ha eauer kimeð wið a þusent deoflen, ant euchan bereð a gret boc al of sunnen iwriten wið swarte smeale leattres, ant an unrude raketehe gledread of furc, forte binden ant to...http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#403734Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403734milky7http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/2/vnnlv/Post.htm#403734http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403734.xmlAnd what would be the negative of this? He was wont to say that if he had read as much as other men he should have known no more than other men.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403730Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403730milky8http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403730http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403730.xmlMrPedantic wrote: Milky wrote: Which period of ME are you thinking of? As I understand it, I'm talking abou pre-1300. Well, that would be Early ME. Do you have any pre-1300 examples of this usage? MrP Not to hand. Do you have any pre-1300 examples of "used to"? BTW; what's your take on the thread question regarding the negative form of "I did (didst) love her so"?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403725Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403725MrPedantic9http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403725http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403725.xmlMilky wrote: Which period of ME are you thinking of? As I understand it, I'm talking abou pre-1300. Well, that would be Early ME. Do you have any pre-1300 examples of this usage? MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403695Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403695milky10http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403695http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403695.xmlForbes wrote: I never did love her so ? or I did never love her so ? That sounds like a comment on the present stae of a relationship, IMO.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403510Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403510Forbes11http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403510http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403510.xmlI never did love her so ? or I did never love her so ?http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403358Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403358milky12http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403358http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403358.xmlMrPedantic wrote: Is that indeed the "older form", Milky? I was under the impression that "use to" in that sense dated back at least to ME. MrP Which period of ME are you thinking of? As I understand it, I'm talking abou pre-1300.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403354Mon, 23 Mar 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403354MrPedantic13http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403354http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403354.xmlIs that indeed the "older form", Milky? I was under the impression that "use to" in that sense dated back at least to ME. MrPhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403325Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403325milky14http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403325http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403325.xmlDoll wrote: Once I did love her so= Once I loved her so. First sentence just emphasize the verb. I would write the negative form like this: Once I didn't love her so.( Of course it sounds weird semantically. ) Thanks; Doll, but I was asking how it WAS written or said in the past, and not how you would say it.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403132Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:403132Doll15http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htm#403132http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-403132.xmlOnce I did love her so= Once I loved her so. First sentence just emphasize the verb. I would write the negative form like this: Once I didn't love her so.( Of course it sounds weird semantically. )http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htmMon, 23 Feb 2009 05:40:58 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:401901milky16http://www.englishforums.com/English/UsedToDid/vnnlv/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments35-401901.xmlThe old form of "used to" was " />did (or " />was ). Folks would say such things as "Once, I did love her so ". I wonder what the negative form of that would have been?