http://www.englishforums.com/English/UkCultureLanguageEnglish/Forum7074.htmThe use and abuse of the English language, as used in the UK, including serious and humorous examples, likes and dislikes, and the evolution of English.enXMOD (Build: 3615.29165)http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#601061Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:601061Usenet0http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#601061http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-601061.xmlOkay, they're different ways of spelling the same thing, then. his name this way. He did did however use "Shagsberd", "Shakeshaft" and several other variants at various times. That might have been your point but it was in response to an observation of mine in reply to Mike Stevens that the variations on Shakespeare's name were not simply different ways of spelling the same word in an age when spelling had not yet been standardised but were in fact word plays on the name or its component parts. And a "shag" is definitely not the same thing as a "shake" either. ;-) No, it isn't. Now put it away and stop playing with red herrings. -- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/ How to make people and...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#601047Sun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:601047Usenet1http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#601047http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-601047.xmlHowever, a "spear" actually does have a "shaft". Okay, they're different ways of spelling the same thing, then. This is not my point. I should perhaps have put a smiley after my comment. So there was no need to be quite so snotty in your reply. his name this way. He did did however use "Shagsberd", "Shakeshaft" and several other variants at various times. And a "shag" is definitely not the same thing as a "shake" either. ;-) Regards, Einde O'Callaghanhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#601023Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:601023Usenet2http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#601023http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-601023.xmlHowever, a "spear" actually does have a "shaft". Okay, they're different ways of spelling the same thing, then. I must remember that next time I pop in a ... my anus.." You might, if you were speaking Latin. I do hope we've got to the bottom of it now. -- Dickhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600998Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600998Usenet3http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600998http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600998.xmlI didn't dispute that. If Bacon had used the ... is quite obviously not a different way of spelling "~speare". However, a "spear" actually does have a "shaft". Okay, they're different ways of spelling the same thing, then. I must remember that next time I pop in a stick of shaftmint chewing gum. Wives have anuses but you wouldn't introduce your better half to your boss by saying, "I'd like you to meet my anus.." I do hope we've got to the bottom of it now. -- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/penny/1d-01.htm Ayesha uttered a little Turkish yelp then upped her voluminous skirts and downed her voluminous knickershttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600970Sun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600970Usenet4http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600970http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600970.xmlhis surname. I didn't dispute that. If Bacon had used the pseudonym "Piglet", no doubt some folks on here would be proposing ... spellings. "~shaft" is quite obviously not a different way of spelling "~speare". However, a "spear" actually does have a "shaft". Regards, Einde O'Callaghanhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600799Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600799Usenet5http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600799http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600799.xmlThe work of Thomas Malory, at a date between the two, is also not far-distant from Shakespearean English. There were ... word endings - or was that even earlier? Largely gone, along with grammatical gender, by the time the Normans arrived. -- Dickhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600564Sun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600564Usenet6http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600564http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600564.xml(Snip) Shagsberd / Shakeshaft are not different ways of spelling Shakespeare. his surname. I didn't dispute that. If Bacon had used the pseudonym "Piglet", no doubt some folks on here would be proposing it as an example of how tolerant was the English of those days of alternative spellings. "~shaft" is quite obviously not a different way of spelling "~speare". -- http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/joachim/05-0.htm "One should not delve too deeply into things," Joachim said to the Great Architect of the University...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600500Sun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600500Usenet7http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/2/hdcdc/Post.htm#600500http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600500.xml(Snip) Think how many ways Shagsberd / Shakeshaft had of spelling his own surname! Shagsberd / Shakeshaft are not different ways of spelling Shakespeare. his surname. -- Mike Stevens, narrowboat Felis Catus II Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk No man is an island. So is Man.http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600437Sun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600437Usenet8http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600437http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600437.xml(Snip) Shagsberd / Shakeshaft are not different ways of spelling Shakespeare. But they are different ways of writing his name used by the man we call William Shakespeare - actually I seem to remember reqading once that one form of his name that he never used when writing his name was "Shakespeare". That's as may be. Presumably Will -- whover he/she was//they were -- had reason to use a variety of names but they are not simply different spellings used at a time before spelling became standardised. Today, poor spelling "Smiths" might just spell their name "Smyth" in error but I should think they intended the difference were they to call themselves "Cobblers". -- "Apsu, apsu, every where,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600397Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600397Usenet9http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600397http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600397.xml(Snip) Think how many ways Shagsberd / Shakeshaft had of spelling his own surname! Shagsberd / Shakeshaft are not different ways of spelling Shakespeare. But they are different ways of writing his name used ... to remember reqading once that one form of his name that he never used when writing his name was "Shakespeare". Regards, Einde O'Callaghanhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600311Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600311Usenet10http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600311http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600311.xml(Snip) Think how many ways Shagsberd / Shakeshaft had of spelling his own surname! Shagsberd / Shakeshaft are not different ways of spelling Shakespeare. -- Through the Valley of Despair they came; an innumerable surge of gross humanity...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600202Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600202Usenet11http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600202http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600202.xmlPerhaps "invented" isn't quite the right word, but every written language has gone through a stage where a formal literary ... so, as you suggest, the period Shakespeare-KJV Bible does represent a fairly rapid establishment of what has become the standard. I suspect that your last point in an illusion caused by the fact that most people (even many quite literate people) never read anything that predates Shakespeare & the AV. There are reasons for that - it was (and had been for a time) a period when a high level of literacy was fashionable, so that nobody was surprised at Phlip Sidney being important simultaneously in the literary and military fields of endeavour. The result was probably the greatest collection of...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600119Sun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600119Usenet12http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600119http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600119.xmlLanguages aren't invented, tehy develop over long periods form earlier forms, often under the influence of other languages. Crudely speaking, ... major changes in grammar and vocabulary since then. The language is still developing and changing (as all living languages do). Perhaps "invented" isn't quite the right word, but every written language has gone through a stage where a formal literary standard was established for it, and in many cases that involved a fair degree of invention. Italian can be said, for example, to have been invented in the 19th century on the unification of Italy when the Florentine form was established as the norm and the huge variety of other very different forms downgraded to...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600101Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600101Usenet13http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600101http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600101.xmlHi there! Anyone know how long was the time period over which the English language was invented? Bits were invented by the Celts, Romans, Anglo Saxons, Vikings, Norman French, etc. etc. There are numerous loan words from Chinese, and Indian languages. Some words were only invented this year, but I am to old to know them. Spelling is being drastically changed by the advent of mobile phone, Toys R us etc. English is an IndoEuropean language, so the basics are many thousands of years old. -- Dave Fawthrop (Email Removed) Sick of Direct Marketing telephone calls and silent calls? They use a computer which phones many numbers, but talk to only one. Register your: real name, tel number, snail mail address, with Telephone Preference Service,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600079Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600079Usenet14http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600079http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600079.xmlHi there! Anyone know how long was the time period over which the English language was invented? Perhaps someone will be able to tell you when they've finished inventing it! My point is that languages are continually evolving and their separateness from one another is a very blurred issue. As to when we could say that a language recognisable as English came into being, that begs a lot of definitions (including that of "recognisable"). Many people use the phrase "Old English" to mean what others describe as "Anglo-Saxon", which others yet again would say wasn't a single language but a family of related languages. But if you accept that in some way this was the earliest form of English, it pushes the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600078Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600078Usenet15http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htm#600078http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600078.xmlHi there! Anyone know how long was the time period over which the English language was invented? Languages aren't invented, ... major changes in grammar and vocabulary since then. The language is still developing and changing (as all living languages do). Regards, Einde O'Callaghanhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htmSun, 24 May 2009 15:46:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:600017Usenet16http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhenEnglishLanguageInvented/hdcdc/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7074-600017.xmlHi there! Anyone know how long was the time period over which the English language was invented? Thanx!! CYA