http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageEnglish/Forum7075.htmThe second forum for the usage of the English language.enXMOD (Build: 3607.32596)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/7/wrkgl/Post.htm#674759Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674759Usenet0http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/7/wrkgl/Post.htm#674759http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674759.xmlTo explain my attitude, AOL left a bitter taste in my mouth, back in the early days of computer hook-up ... to charge by the hour) for very limited access to anything outside of their own domain and their chat groups. We seem to have had opposite experiences: I went with AOL because my publisher used it, recommended it, and, for the first six years or so, paid for my subscription. I've enjoyed following some of AOL's punk-rock folders.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/7/wrkgl/Post.htm#674729Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674729Usenet1http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/7/wrkgl/Post.htm#674729http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674729.xmlNow you should understand why Time Warner is dropping any references to AOL in their name. That's AOL for you. It is? Is it for me too?! (See above.) You could explain things to YJ then. To explain my attitude, AOL left a bitter taste in my mouth, back in the early days of computer hook-up to the outside world. That's when I had to pay them a fortune (they used to charge by the hour) for very limited access to anything outside of their own domain and their chat groups. It was also very irritating and time-consuming trying to cancel the account (an hour on the phone, waiting for someone human to respond). They discouraged cancellations. I believe that they still charge a couple of bucks more than other providers, but I could be...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674689Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674689Usenet2http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674689http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674689.xmlIt is? Is it for me too?! (See above.)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674558Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674558Usenet3http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674558http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674558.xmlIs it acceptable to cut all quotes but the stuff by the person who you're replying directly to? That's what I do. I keep only what's necessary for context. Sometimes that's more than one person's post; sometimes it's just a sentence. Dena Jo (Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674510Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674510Usenet4http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674510http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674510.xml(SML wrote something about quotes:) Here's my problem. I used to access this group through AOL, which is what I'm ... attribution. I used to get yelled at for not attributing or quoting properly. Again, it was AOL's fault, not mine. Now you should understand why Time Warner is dropping any references to AOL in their name. Ironically, today there seems to be more problems with AOL's newsgroup area than usual. I'm not able to quote AT ALL! That's AOL for you. More recently, I started to use Google to access the AUE, and this is what I usually do. But Google ... person who you're replying directly to? This seems reasonable to me. But, I don't know what the general standard is. Yes, leave the attribution and...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674494Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674494Usenet5http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674494http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674494.xmlDE781 wrote, in part: Is it acceptable to cut all quotes but the stuff by the person who you're replying directly to? Acceptable, and encouraged! SML please remove your hat when sending me e-mail http://pirate-women.comhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674475Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:674475Usenet6http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#674475http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-674475.xml(SML wrote something about quotes:) No, I don't think you're picking on me. I understand your point about not getting lost in quotes. But I'm still confused. Here's my problem. I used to access this group through AOL, which is what I'm doing now. AOL usually lets me insert a quote (from the previous post only) as I am typing, but without any context or attribution. I used to get yelled at for not attributing or quoting properly. Again, it was AOL's fault, not mine. Ironically, today there seems to be more problems with AOL's newsgroup area than usual. I'm not able to quote AT ALL! More recently, I started to use Google to access the AUE, and this is what I usually do. But Google just keeps ALL previous...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672381Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:672381Usenet7http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672381http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-672381.xml(instant poster's signature) One so seldom sees "instant" used this way outside of legal documents. Good man. (P.S. Check your email, please.) Dena Jo (Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672276Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:672276Usenet8http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672276http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-672276.xmlSML please remove your hat when sending me e-mail http://pirate-women.com Even though you've been spared the wrath of the obnoxious busybody quoted below, please be aware that the lonesome pain-in-the-ass St. Padraig Breathnach (a.k.a. "Some") might consider your posting of your "commercial" Web site link to be "out of order." "Some might also think that posting the website link in a non-commercial group was out of order." + Padraig Breathnach, 26 Sept 2003 Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Publisher MALEDICTA PRESS P.O. Box 14123 Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA http://www.maledicta.ORG/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672168Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:672168Usenet9http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672168http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-672168.xmlSML: But that's ridiculous. What if someone just so happens ... saying my posts were too long because of QUOTES, though. Yup you had left in a lot of unnecessary material. Again, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you it happens a lot on AUE. I've noticed recently that many of us, me included, are doing a poor job at snipping quoted material; I'd meant to post something about this, and am using this opportunity to do so now. We should only include that portion of the posting being replied to that is directly relevant to the posting being written. Care should be taken to delete any quoted material following the newly-posted remarks, unless there is strong justification for including it (for example, R.J. Valentine...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672134Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:672134Usenet10http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/6/wrkgl/Post.htm#672134http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-672134.xmlSML: A post is too long if I have to scroll through it. But that's ridiculous. What if someone just so happens to type a novel? I mean, there are going to be ... it is. I was under the impression that you were saying my posts were too long because of QUOTES, though. Yup you had left in a lot of unnecessary material. Again, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you it happens a lot on AUE. SML please remove your hat when sending me e-mail http://pirate-women.comhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#672006Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:672006Usenet11http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#672006http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-672006.xml} SML: } }> }>A post is too long if I have to scroll through it. } } But that's ridiculous. What if someone just so happens to type a novel? ... Oy! R. J. Valentine Isn't "so" a negative-polarity item (tm)?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#672002Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:672002Usenet12http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#672002http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-672002.xmlSML: A post is too long if I have to scroll through it. But that's ridiculous. What if someone just so happens to type a novel? I mean, there are going to be posts that we'll have to scroll through. That's just the way it is. I was under the impression that you were saying my posts were too long because of QUOTES, though.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671999Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671999Usenet13http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671999http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671999.xmlThis is frustrating. I used to get yelled at for ... and how much to leave and how much to cut? A post is too long if I have to scroll through it. This is utter nonsense. Attention-span problems, SML? SML please remove your hat when sending me e-mail http://pirate-women.com Please be aware that the *in my opinion* lonely & busybodying pain-in-the-ass St. Padraig Breathnach (a.k.a. "Some") considers posting your "commercial" Web site link to be "out of order." To quote that obnoxious busybody: "Some might also think that posting the website link in a non-commercial group was out of order." + Padraig Breathnach, 26 Sept 2003 Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Publisher MALEDICTA PRESS P.O. Box 14123 Santa...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671994Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671994Usenet14http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671994http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671994.xmlPlease be aware that the *in my opinion* lonely & busybodying pain-in-the-ass St. Padraig Breathnach (a.k.a. "Some") considers posting your "commercial" Web site link to be "out of order." To quote that obnoxious busybody: "Some might also think that posting the website link in a non-commercial group was out of order." + Padraig Breathnach, 26 Sept 2003 Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Publisher MALEDICTA PRESS P.O. Box 14123 Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA http://www.maledicta.ORG/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671976Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671976Usenet15http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671976http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671976.xmlThis is frustrating. I used to get yelled at for not quoting ENOUGH in each post. How do I know how much to quote and how much to leave and how much to cut? A post is too long if I have to scroll through it. SML please remove your hat when sending me e-mail http://pirate-women.comhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671960Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671960Usenet16http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671960http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671960.xmlDE781, will you please start trimming your posts, especially at ... bad this way but your post caught my eye This is frustrating. I used to get yelled at for not quoting ENOUGH in each post. How do I know how much to quote and how much to leave and how much to cut? As with everything in life, use your intelligence guided by your experience. Or your experience guided by your intelligence. Either way, the advice is from Nero Wolfe, and you can't do better than that. Maria Conlonhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671934Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671934Usenet17http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671934http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671934.xmlDE781, will you please start trimming your posts, especially at the end? It's not just you AUE is bad this way but your post caught my eye This is frustrating. I used to get yelled at for not quoting ENOUGH in each post. How do I know how much to quote and how much to leave and how much to cut?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671856Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671856Usenet18http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671856http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671856.xmlI may drift off at times, but that was not ... Now, in Latvian or German that's a different story! Not being any set rules? Right. There are sentences in which in certain applications commas are optional and depend on a judgment call concerning the length of a clause, be it dependent or independent. You mean Latvian and German have even STRICTER rules of punctuation? You betcha! I recall the dread of having to take dictation in class of a piece by one particular Latvian writer one who loved sentences that ran for half a page or longer. The emphasis was on punctuating it correctly, as Latvian spelling is fairly straightforward, yet, quite a few students managed to screw that up too. I was lucky in that in our Latvian high school in...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671855Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671855Usenet19http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/5/wrkgl/Post.htm#671855http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671855.xmlDE781 wrote some stuff, then left at the end: did not see a problem in such a short sentence when supplying an answer to a direct question. ... (Am I dashing enough now to earn favor with you?) DE781, will you please start trimming your posts, especially at the end? It's not just you AUE is bad this way but your post caught my eye. SML please remove your hat when sending me e-mail http://pirate-women.comhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671851Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671851Usenet20http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671851http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671851.xmlSkitt: This was three years ago. I stopped studying it ... We'll see what happens. But I THINK it's pretty crappy. No, it is not crappy at all. I had expected it much worse after reading your doubts about posting to AUS. I could understand all your message in AUS. Wow! Thanks, Javi! Good to know. But, you still knew I was a foreigner, right? Here, you don't seem like a foreigner, your command of English is so good. I hope to be able to speak Spanish so well one day, and without so much effort. You express yourself quite well in Spanish. You seem to have forgotten some things, specially verbal conjugation, but your vocabulary is good and your sintax is very good, you use subordinate clauses almost perfectly, Thanks. LOL, but...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671847Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671847Usenet21http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671847http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671847.xmlI think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well ... wrong and had to go back and read it again. I can see that without context (which was snipped), and reading one word at a time, not seeing the whole sentence, that could happen. I, much inclined as I am to using "well" as Reagan did, I'm too young to remember Reagan for anything other than being a senile old nut. But, I'm guessing, he used to use "well" in the same way that we Gen Y'ers like to use it? did not see a problem in such ahttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671845Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671845Usenet22http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671845http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671845.xml}> Dena Jo: }>> I think I might have punctuated ... at the end as a subtle hint to recent posters. I may drift off at times, but that was not the case there. OK, my punctuation was faulty. I hate ... with there being no set rules, and such, in English. Now, in Latvian or German that's a different story! Not being any set rules? You mean Latvian and German have even STRICTER rules of punctuation?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671786Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671786Usenet23http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671786http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671786.xmlI can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, ... maybe these words are not what you are looking for. I was thinking more of words that aren't considered to refer to anything religious but that started out that way references ... like English "mecca", is a good example. I'm not sure why "macabro" (from French "danse macabré") is on the list. "Del ár. maqabir, tumbas, cementerio." "Del ár. macbora .." In the 2001 ed. the RAE seems to adhere to the Fench hypothesis, which says that it comes from the biblical Macchabei brothers, through "dance macab(r)é". "Olé" would be a good example, but the DRAE just says...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671677Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671677Usenet24http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671677http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671677.xmlWhy did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at ... quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish? I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, meca, ramadán. Anyway, I'm not sure about how to understand "Muslim religious references" nor "everyday Spanish", so maybe these words are not what you are looking for. I was thinking more of words that aren't considered to refer to anything religious but that started out that way references to Allah, or the Qur`an, or Muslim holidays or prayers that remain in words used in casual conversation on other topics. The way English "good-bye" came from "God be with ye". So words like...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671623Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671623Usenet25http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671623http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671623.xmlNeither do I, but it could be as you say; anyway, there are other plausible hypotheses: The DRAE says that ... is that leaves unexplained the initial "h", generally mute nowadays, but pronnounced (as in English) until not too long ago. That's true. But "Pull the net!" as the equivalent of "Bloody 'ell!" sounds even less convincing, doesn't it? And what is *¡Hala, Madrid!* rough cultural, equivalent: "Go, Steelers! (AmE) or "Come on you Reds!" (BrE) all about? (Minor Anniversaries Corner: Alfredo di Stefano joined Real Madrid 50 years ago last week.) ** Ross Howardhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671595Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671595Usenet26http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671595http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671595.xmlI can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, ... maybe these words are not what you are looking for. Could the exclamation of surprise *¡hala!* be a corruption of *Alá*? (Sorry, no etymological Spanish dic handy.) Neither do I, but it could be as you say; anyway, there are other plausible hypotheses: The DRAE says that it comes from Arabic "hala", used to stir horses up; I know too little Arabic as to consider it. Other possibility is that "hala" is the imperative form of "halar", southern pronunciation of "jalar" (to pull), used by fishermen (pulling the net); the DRAE says Spanish "jalar" comes from French "haler", and this seems to come from...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671574Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671574Usenet27http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671574http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671574.xmlWhy did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at ... quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish? I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, meca, ramadán. Anyway, I'm not sure about how to understand "Muslim religious references" nor "everyday Spanish", so maybe these words are not what you are looking for. Could the exclamation of surprise *¡hala!* be a corruption of *Alá*? (Sorry, no etymological Spanish dic handy.) ** Ross Howardhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671571Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671571Usenet28http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/4/wrkgl/Post.htm#671571http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671571.xmlIt's short for "Ojalá que...", which comes from the Arabic "may Allah grant". Why did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at the DRAE, you're off a little. They say it's "law Sa llah", "if God wills" ("si Dios quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish? I can now think of: olé, mezquita, faquir, macabro, ataúd, meca, ramadán. Anyway, I'm not sure about how to understand "Muslim religious references" nor "everyday Spanish", so maybe these words are not what you are looking for.  Saludos cordiales Javi Conjunction of an irregular verb: I am firm. You are obstinate. He is a pig-headed fool.http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671502Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671502Usenet29http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671502http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671502.xmlSkitt: You've studied it for five years, and your Spanish is still God-awful, as you say? This was three years ago. I stopped studying it three years ago. I'm sure I was better then than I ... have all the tenses right. I have a so-so vocabulary. We'll see what happens. But I THINK it's pretty crappy. No, it is not crappy at all. I had expected it much worse after reading your doubts about posting to AUS. I could understand all your message in AUS. You express yourself quite well in Spanish. You seem to have forgotten some things, specially verbal conjugation, but your vocabulary is good and your sintax is very good, you use subordinate clauses almost perfectly, though you have to learn the usage of the subjunctive and...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671479Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671479Usenet30http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671479http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671479.xmlThe carbon unit using the name Dena Jo in Well, if they are courteous. I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they are courteous." I initially read the "well" ... go back and read it again. I'd be interested to hear if anyone else had the same problem with it. I had, but English is not my mother tongue. I think that a period (full stop) or a semicolon would have made clear what Skitt meant. I believe that I would had written it enclosing the if clause in brackets. It could be that I've simply grown so accustomed to reading verbatim deposition transcripts, where every other sentence begins with a throwaway (well, now, etc.) that it's difficult for me to read it any other way.  Saludos...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671455Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671455Usenet31http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671455http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671455.xml}> Dena Jo: }>> I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they }>> are courteous." ... as a throw-away "well" and assumed you just drifted off at the end as a subtle hint to recent posters. I may drift off at times, but that was not the case there. OK, my punctuation was faulty. I hate it when that happens, but punctuating is not my strong point, what with there being no set rules, and such, in English. Now, in Latvian or German that's a different story! Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671459Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671459Usenet32http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671459http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671459.xmlIt's short for "Ojalá que...", which comes from the Arabic "may Allah grant". Why did that never dawn on me? Actually, looking at the DRAE, you're off a little. They say it's "law Sa llah", "if God wills" ("si Dios quiere"). Are there other Muslim religious references in everyday Spanish? Evan Kirshenbaum + HP Laboratories >The skinny models whose main job is 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 >to display clothes aren't hired forPalo Alto, CA 94304 >their sex appeal. They're hired (650)857-7572 > Peter Moylan http://www.kirshenbaum.net/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671452Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671452Usenet33http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671452http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671452.xmlI'm not so sure of that. I read your response to the thread starter, skipped Dena Jo's (figuring that Young Joey would quote enough of it) Yeah. Right. Admit it. You find me boring. I'll have to do better. Dena Jo (Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671451Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671451Usenet34http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671451http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671451.xml}> Dena Jo: } }>> I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they are }>> courteous." }>> }>> I initially read the "well" as a throwaway "well," }> }> Good call. I figured Skitt had made some sort of typo. It wasn't }> until reading your post, Dena, that I realized what he'd meant. And, }> no, it wasn't your "Well if..." that helped. It was your }> discussing the actual punctuation that tipped me off that I had }> probably misread it. And, then, I went directly back to Skitt's post }> and reread that sentence, and finally got it. }> }> Sure enough, I read both Skitt AND your version of the "well" as }>...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671405Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671405Usenet35http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671405http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671405.xmlAnd, it has to be "tenga", not "tiene", because it's conditional, right? I think tenga is the subjunctive. Dena Jo, whose last course in Spanish was in 1976 (Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671402Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671402Usenet36http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671402http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671402.xmldidn't occur to me. I admit your idea has merit, and thus, I may have been less than dashing. Do you still love me? But of course! You could never be less than dashing to me. Dena Jo (Email: Replace TPUBGTH with denajo2)http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671310Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671310Usenet37http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/3/wrkgl/Post.htm#671310http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671310.xmlMoreso? Is that Spanish? Is this not an actual word? Wow...I can't seem to find it in dictionaries! How odd! I've been using this ... and "more-so" are offered as suggestions. But, if you click on either, NO ENTRY comes up! How odd is this? Check out . I got to this via , which I find more useful than dictionary.com. Bob Lieblich I do this alot. Alright?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671297Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671297Usenet38http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671297http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671297.xmlMoreso? Is that Spanish? Is this not an actual word? Wow...I can't seem to find it in dictionaries! How odd! I've been using this ... and "more-so" are offered as suggestions. But, if you click on either, NO ENTRY comes up! How odd is this? That's because it is two words more so and they have their own meanings that combine well for the thought you wanted to express. Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671287Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671287Usenet39http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671287http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671287.xmlDena Jo: I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they are courteous." I initially read the "well" as a throwaway "well," Good call. I figured Skitt had made some sort of typo. It wasn't until reading your post, Dena, that I ... If...", just to make it perfectly clear. Even as two separate sentences, the "well" could be misread as throwaway, probably. Fair catch. Read my answer to DJ for *my* thoughts. There's more than one way to look at it. Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671286Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671286Usenet40http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671286http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671286.xmlSkitt: To become fluent in a language the best way is to become totally immersed in it. Wouldn't an AU group be a good way to be totally immersed though? Short of a trip to Mexico, it's ... can think of. Unless I decide to spend my entire Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks hanging out in Paterson or something. Anything is better than nothing. Skitt, I had NO IDEA that English wasn't your first language. Your English is flawless! Thanks. What was your native language? Latvian. I'm guessing you live in an English-speaking country now? How did you do the immersion for English & German? Political pressures forced my family to leave Latvia and to live in Germany for five years. After that, when I was sixteen, my family...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671276Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671276Usenet41http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671276http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671276.xmlMoreso? Is that Spanish? Is this not an actual word? Wow...I can't seem to find it in dictionaries! How odd! I've been using this for God knows how long! I've always assumed "moreso" was a word; I think I've even heard others say it. Here's something interesting: Go to www.dictionary.com. And type in "moreso". It'll say there was no entry found for "moreso", and will offer some suggestions. "More so" and "more-so" are offered as suggestions. But, if you click on either, NO ENTRY comes up! How odd is this?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671275Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671275Usenet42http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671275http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671275.xmlYAY! I got a reply in the AUS, and the ... that are confusing me moreso than the actual Spanish! LOL! Moreso? Is that Spanish? Well, Moreno is..http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671264Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671264Usenet43http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671264http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671264.xmlYAY! I got a reply in the AUS, and the person seemed to have no major problem understanding me. Of ... similar to the typical AUE post. It's the technical words that are confusing me moreso than the actual Spanish! LOL! Moreso? Is that Spanish? Skitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671255Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671255Usenet44http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671255http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671255.xmlWell, if they are courteous. I think I might have punctuated that like so: "Well if they are courteous." I initially read the "well" ... of the sentence that I realize I'd read it completely wrong and had to go back and read it again. I can see that without context (which was snipped), and reading one word at a time, not seeing the whole sentence, that could happen. I, much inclined as I am to using "well" as Reagan did, did not see a problem in such a short sentence when supplying an answer to a direct question. Funny, though, that as much a dashing fellow that I am, the use of a dash there didn't occur to me. I admit your idea has merit, and thus, I may have been less than dashing. Do you still...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671251Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671251Usenet45http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671251http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671251.xmlQue tenga buena suerte, Here's what I mean by "God-awful". I can't even understand this. Exceptfor the "buena suerte" ("good luck") part. The "Que ... for just chit-chatting and having them correcterrors and make suggestions? I'm guessing that's not really what the AU groupsare for. The regulars at AUS are a good bunch for the most part, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you chit-chatting. If they do, they'll either ignore your posts or let you know. As for my good luck wish, Rich has it right in his post. It's pretty common in Spanish to start a sentence expressing a wish with "Que...". It's short for "Ojalá que...", which comes...http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671246Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671246Usenet46http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/2/wrkgl/Post.htm#671246http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671246.xmlQue=That tenga=you have buena suerte=good luck Giving you "That you have good luck" and now rephrase as it might be said in colloquial English. "Here's wishing you good luck". At least that's what my 5 years of Spanish tells me. Rich Thanks, Rich. It was that form of "tenga" that made me think it must have been something more confusing. Why not just use "tengas", for "you have"? Is the formal form more polite online? I've generally used the "tu" form. And, it has to be "tenga", not "tiene", because it's conditional, right? I might NOT have good luck?http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/wrkgl/post.htm#671232Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671232Usenet47http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/wrkgl/post.htm#671232http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671232.xmlQue tenga buena suerte, Here's what I mean by "God-awful". I can't even understand this.Except for the "buena suerte" ("good luck") part. The "Que ... for just chit-chatting and having them correcterrors and make suggestions? I'm guessing that's not really what the AUgroups are for. Take it literally and then guess (though this does not work for all idiomatic phrases) Que=That tenga=you have buena suerte=good luck Giving you "That you have good luck" and now rephrase as it might be said in colloquial English. "Here's wishing you good luck". At least that's what my 5 years of Spanish tells me. Richhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/wrkgl/post.htm#671228Fri, 22 May 2009 15:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671228Usenet48http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/wrkgl/post.htm#671228http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671228.xmlYAY! I got a reply in the AUS, and the person seemed to have no major problem understanding me. Of course, his post is full of jargon, similar to the typical AUE post. It's the technical words that are confusing me moreso than the actual Spanish! LOL!http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/wrkgl/post.htm#671225Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:671225Usenet49http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageSpanish/wrkgl/post.htm#671225http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-671225.xmlQue tenga buena suerte, Here's what I mean by "God-awful". I can't even understand this. Except for the "buena suerte" ("good luck") part. The "Que tenga"...?? No clue. Thanks for the info though. The radio sounds like a good idea! Would the AUS peeps get *** at me for just chit-chatting and having them correct errors and make suggestions? I'm guessing that's not really what the AU groups are for.