http://www.englishforums.com/English/AltUsageEnglish/Forum7075.htmThe second forum for the usage of the English language.enXMOD (Build: 3615.39139)http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#729199Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:729199Usenet0http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#729199http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-729199.xmlI found 542 for "filted"...some occurrences (from among those that are not clearly misspellings) appear to originate from an odd erroneous backformation from "filter", but the references to "filted yarns" have me wondering if there's some obscure technical meaning..r Sounds sort of fishy to me. Rob Bannisterhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#728244Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:728244Usenet1http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#728244http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-728244.xmlDo Englishmen have a sense of humor? None of them. Only a sense of humour. To each his or her own.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#728064Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:728064Usenet2http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#728064http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-728064.xmlOy! David Do Englishmen have a sense of humor? None of them. Only a sense of humour. m.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#728052Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:728052Usenet3http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#728052http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-728052.xmlIn each of Mr or Ms Rise's uses in the quoted paragraph, ... Oy! David Do Englishmen have a sense of humor?http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727836Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727836Usenet4http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727836http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727836.xmlFrances Kemmish filted: Googling on "filted" gives a few results which refer to textiles, but they seem to be errors for "felted". Oh dear...so if the word "filted" appears in an ambiguous context (1), it could be a typo for "filtered", for "felted", for "filled", or for "fitted"...any other candidates while we're at it?... I noticed once, before everybody was getting on those BBS things that were later replaced by newsgroups, that if I handed a longhand draft to our typists containing the word "modem", it'd be changed to "modern"...if I typed my draft (2) instead, the same word would become "model"...they also sent back...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727658Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727658Usenet5http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727658http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727658.xmlOn 30 Oct 2003, R H Draney wrote -snip- I found 542 for "filted"...some occurrences (from among those that ... yarns" have me wondering if there's some obscure technical meaning..r Possibly: "filoselle" is a term for fine thread does the knitting community perhaps use "filted" rather than "filoselled"? Not any member of the knitting community that I know. I haven't heard either "filoselle" or "filted". Google suggests "filoselle" is used in embroidery. http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/fi/filoselle164795.html Googling on "filted" gives a few results which refer to textiles, but they seem to be errors for "felted". Franhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727555Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727555Usenet6http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727555http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727555.xmlIn each of Mr or Ms Rise's uses in the quoted paragraph, ... Oy! Davidhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727531Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727531Usenet7http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727531http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727531.xml( . . . ) Does the rule extend to (*)paranthesis(*)? It should, because it ... of (*)paranthesis(*) is to interrupt the flow of the sentence. If I remember correctly, Mark Israel's AUE FAQ advises against commenting on other posters' spelling errors, except when the misspelled item is a grammar or linguistics term. That exception covers the misspelling *"paranthesis". The singular is "parenthesis". The plural is "parentheses". In each of Mr or Ms Rise's uses in the quoted paragraph, it seems clear he or she should have written "parentheses".http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727501Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727501Usenet8http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727501http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727501.xmlDoes the rule extend to paranthesis? It should, because it ... of paranthesis is to interrupt the flow of the sentence. The rules about parentheses and ending punctuation are not quite the same as either system for quotation marks and ending punctuation. Actually, the rules are about the same, or at least analogous: In either the US or the UK style, enclose within parentheses only what you want to parenthesize. The gender of the noun is the same (male). (The gender of the noun is the same.) A special consideration is a complete sentence parenthesized within another complete sentence. The parenthesized sentence doesn't begin with a capital letter unless it begins with a word that's normally capitalized, like "I" and it...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727359Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:21:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727359Usenet9http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727359http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727359.xml-snip- I found 542 for "filted"...some occurrences (from among those that are not clearly misspellings) appear to originate from an odd erroneous backformation from "filter", but the references to "filted yarns" have me wondering if there's some obscure technical meaning..r Possibly: "filoselle" is a term for fine thread does the knitting community perhaps use "filted" rather than "filoselled"? Cheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727353Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727353Usenet10http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#727353http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727353.xmlSorry...copied them down the wrong way round...the double-H *does* occur more often in "withholding", which may have blinded me.. That's because there really *is* a double-H in "withholding". Davidhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727382Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727382Usenet11http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#727382http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727382.xmlDoes the rule extend to paranthesis? It should, because it seems awkward to end a sentence with something between paranthesis, ... with the information given between paranthesis. After all, the purpose of paranthesis is to interrupt the flow of the sentence. The rules about parentheses and ending punctuation are not quite the same as either system for quotation marks and ending punctuation. I don't have time at the moment to write out the rules I know, but I'm sure you'll find them in the "writing guides" at Intro B. For example: http://ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/parentheses.htm Best Donna Richouxhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#727156Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727156Usenet12http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#727156http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727156.xmlPeter Moylan at (Email Removed) says in (Email Removed): ^. Agreed. In this context they're usually called "angle brackets". Sorry, that was a thinko on my part, caused by the OP calling them "carrots". I too would go with "angle brackets". Sometimes I'll call them "chevrons", but properly speaking that term should be reserved for the doubled-up version. Ah those things that remind us of a Citroën that has rolled onto its side. Quentin Burward.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#727108Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:727108Usenet13http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#727108http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-727108.xmlAre they called carets? I thought the caret was ^. is "greater than". And there's my/the British way of positioning full stops. Agreed. In this context they're usually called "angle brackets". Sorry, that was a thinko on my part, caused by the OP calling them "carrots". I too would go with "angle brackets". Sometimes I'll call them "chevrons", but properly speaking that term should be reserved for the doubled-up version. Peter Moylan (Email Removed) http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#726747Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726747Usenet14http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#726747http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726747.xmlGood idea.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726741Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726741Usenet15http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726741http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726741.xmlArcadian Rises filted: Me too. Actually I used those "alternative" versions inadvertedly. For singular I use "parenthesis" and for plural "parentheses", which was not the case in my quoted message. Anyway, those were not the worst mistake I made in that message. What troubles me most is that my "interjection" has nothing to do with the rule Donna mentioned. My point was that IMO a sentence should not end witha phrase, or even another sentence between parentheses. I hope I got it right this time. nearly allhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726813Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726813Usenet16http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726813http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726813.xmlmUs1Ka filted: Sorry...copied them down the wrong way round...the double-H *does* occur more often in "withholding", which may have blinded me.. I found 542 for "filted"...some occurrences (from among those that are not clearly misspellings) appear to originate from an odd erroneous backformation from "filter", but the references to "filted yarns" have me wondering if there's some obscure technical meaning..rhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#726706Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726706Usenet17http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/3/wlkpl/Post.htm#726706http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726706.xmlDoes the rule extend to paranthesis? It should, because it seems awkward to end a sentence with something between paranthesis, ... with the information given between paranthesis. After all, the purpose of paranthesis is to interrupt the flow of the sentence. I've decided that the full stop goes inside the parenthesis ,which then makes it confusing, and generally causes me to remove the parentheses.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726689Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726689Usenet18http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726689http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726689.xml(1) threshhold 7,950,000 threshold 55,100 I find that extraordinary. I have never seen the first spelling, and Isee a fair number of web sites both literate and illiterate. Are you sureGoogle hasn't taken one its funny turns? I just googled and got: threshold 5,240,000 threshhold 37,200 m.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726688Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726688Usenet19http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/2/wlkpl/Post.htm#726688http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726688.xml(1) threshhold 7,950,000 threshold 55,100 I find that extraordinary. I have never seen the first spelling, and I see a fair number of web sites both literate and illiterate. Are you sure Google hasn't taken one its funny turns? Katyhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#726611Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726611Usenet20http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#726611http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726611.xmlArcadian Rises filted: Does the rule extend to paranthesis? It should, because it seems awkward to end a sentence with something between paranthesis, ... with the information given between paranthesis. After all, the purpose of paranthesis is to interrupt the flow of the sentence. Google count alert: parenthesis 921,000 paranthesis 8,050 parentheses 2,570,000 parantheses 11,500 The ratios are well below Donna's threshold (1) for typo-vs-alternative, but that's still a lot more of A.R.'s version than I expected to see...nearly all the first page of hits for the "para-" spellings appear to refer to programming languages, so perhaps this is some peculiar techie blind spot..r (1) threshhold 7,950,000 threshold 55,100...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#726533Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726533Usenet21http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#726533http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726533.xmlDoesn't it seem silly to put quotes around a single ... "quotes?" I can't believe the rule applies to question "marks". Good thing, because it doesn't. The American rule applies to commas and periods, not to question marks. Does the rule extend to paranthesis? It should, because it seems awkward to end a sentence with something between paranthesis, when it would make more sense to start a new sentence with the information given between paranthesis. After all, the purpose of paranthesis is to interrupt the flow of the sentence.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#726514Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:726514Usenet22http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#726514http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-726514.xmlDoesn't it seem silly to put quotes around a single word that happens to end the sentence and include the period to end the entire sentence inside those "quotes?" I can't believe the rule applies to question "marks". Good thing, because it doesn't. The American rule applies to commas and periods, not to question marks. I assume you surrounded "marks" with quotation marks out of sheer mischief. Donna Richouxhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#725974Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725974Usenet23http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#725974http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725974.xmlThis case is more clear-cut. It tends to suggest that ... that the following punctuation is not part of the address. Are they called carets? I thought the caret was ^. is "greater than". And there's my/the British way of positioning full stops. Agreed. In this context they're usually called "angle brackets". Davidhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#725892Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725892Usenet24http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/4/wlkpl/Post.htm#725892http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725892.xmlI need an authority for this. I am in a ... sentence ends with quotation marks that the period goes inside. This proves only that the other person is American and you are not. The convention varies from country to country. ... that you should put quotation marks around only what is being quoted, seems to be gaining favour in the USA.) This case is more clear-cut. It tends to suggest that the stubborn person is more than a little stupid. The whole point of the carets is to make it clear that the following punctuation is not part of the address. Are they called carets? I thought the caret was ^. is "greater than". And there's my/the British way of positioning full stops. Edward The reading group's reading group:...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725679Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725679Usenet25http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725679http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725679.xmlI need an authority for this. I am in a ... sentence ends with quotation marks that the period goes inside. This proves only that the other person is American and you are not. The convention varies from country to country. ... that you should put quotation marks around only what is being quoted, seems to be gaining favour in the USA.) Doesn't it seem silly to put quotes around a single word that happens to end the sentence and include the period to end the entire sentence inside those "quotes?" I can't believe the rule applies to question "marks".http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725615Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725615Usenet26http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725615http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725615.xmlI need an authority for this. I am in a dispute with a stuborne person who insists that when ever a sentence ends with quotation marks that the period goes inside. This proves only that the other person is American and you are not. The convention varies from country to country. (Although the "logical" convention, the one that says that you should put quotation marks around only what is being quoted, seems to be gaining favour in the USA.) This case is more clear-cut. It tends to suggest that the stubborn person is more than a little stupid. The whole point of the carets is to make it clear that the following punctuation is not part of the address. Peter Moylan (Email Removed) http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725556Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725556Usenet27http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725556http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725556.xmlOr maybe the British practice just makes more sense.http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725470Mon, 25 May 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725470Usenet28http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725470http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725470.xmlI raised this question about 7 years ago in this NG. I remember the answer but not the authority. When ... Doe hereafter referred to as "Customer". I need an authority for this. I am in a dispute with a stuborne Oy! person who insists that when ever a sentence ends with quotation marks that the period goes inside. You have a problem. If your posting is accurate in indicating that you are at Cal Berkeley (my alma mater, BTW; class of 1961), you're asking about American usage and you are the one who is wrong. Except in certain technical writing where clarity is absolutely essential, standard American practice is always to put the period inside the closing quotation mark. Same for commas. What you describe is British practice....http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725437Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725437Usenet29http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htm#725437http://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725437.xmlI am in a dispute with a stuborne person who insists that when ever a sentence ends with quotation marks that the period goes inside. I believe the period got moved inside the quotation marks regardless of whether it made sense back when lead type was hand set. The period was a tiny, thin piece of type and if it had only a space after it had an unfortunate habit of getting broken off between the type stick and the press. Most often by the rag used to clean the type in the galley or even once the page had been locked into the chase after proofing. So the proof showed it there but when the press ran it had disappeared. If you were very unlucky it got wedged somewhere else on the page and made a real mess. Involving stopping the print run,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htmSun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:725367Usenet30http://www.englishforums.com/English/PeriodOusideQuotationMarks/wlkpl/post.htmhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/comments7075-725367.xmlI raised this question about 7 years ago in this NG. I remember the answer but not the authority. When a sentence ends with a quotation the period goes inside the quotation marks. But I understand that when the sentence ends with quotation marks that are not used to set off a quotation but are used to set off a special phrase the period goes outside the quotation marks. EXAMPLE: This agreement is between The Acme Merchandising Company, Inc. hereafter referred to as "Vendor" and John Doe hereafter referred to as "Customer". I need an authority for this. I am in a dispute with a stuborne person who insists that when ever a sentence ends with quotation marks that the period goes inside. Also would the same principle...