Search results for 'tag:Articles tag:Genitives' matching tags 'Articles' and 'Genitives'

Re: using articles with titles (a count/the count??)

Cool Breeze — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:23:36 GMT

1. What is called the of-genitive in Europe requires an article, as Clive has shown: the prince of Wales.

2. If a title used in the Anglo-Saxon world is followed by the person's name, no article is used:

Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth, President Bush.

3. If a title not used in the Anglo-Saxon world is followed by the person's name, the is usually used: the Emperor Claudius

Re: Grammar point, please help clarify this

Huevos — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:50:05 GMT

Raen
1. As far as I know, all 3 articles are "always" followed by a noun and/or adjective+noun. Why are they labeled as "adjectives" when coming before a noun or adjective+noun? Why not just call them adjectives to begin with? and why can't they stand as their original identity which is "articles".

Here's what Wikipedia says: An article is a word that combines with a noun to indicate the type of reference being made by the noun. The three main articles in the English language are the, an and a. It is sometimes wondered which part of speech articles belong to. Despite much speculation, articles are adjectives, as they do describe nouns; Linguists place them in a different category, that of determiners.

Raen
2. "my, your, our, their" are always adjective. A layman would say why not the other possessive pronouns: "her, his, her, its...". What's so special abut the first 4?

Wikipedia says no on this: Depending on the theory the grammar subscribes to, English "possessive adjectives" are determiners or pronouns: possessive determiners,[1] possessive pronouns,[2] dependent genitive pronouns,[3] weak possessive pronouns,[4] and so forth. They are not adjectives, because they can be substituted for and cannot co-occur with another determiner such as an article or a demonstrative.

So the answer to your question: "So would you say this particular grammar point is widely accepted by native-speakers and/or linguistic community?", is no.

Re: gerund or verbal noun with an article?

Cool Breeze — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:35:17 GMT

Crokey
how do you feel about possessives before a gerund? "John's singing bothered me". You are constantly told that the possessive should be used before a gerund(unless you are saying something weird and you wish to emphasise the subject of the gerund).

I have given my opinion in an earlier post. Page 1 of this thread offers you a link to it (subject of gerund). As the gerund fluctuates between being a noun and a verb and resembles both to some extent, it stands to reason that a genitive is often possible before it and so is an adjectival attribute - at least in your example.

I don't really care what the ing-form is called in each case. I'm not obsessed with terminology. If anyone thinks the gerund is a complete noun, he should explain why the gerund can have a passive form:

He enjoys being seen in my company.

I would like to see the passive forms of other nouns, like a girl or courage, for example.

Re: gerund or verbal noun with an article?

Cool Breeze — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:52:40 GMT

Crokey

"the singing of the bird awoke me" or "the singing of the bird's awoke me" ? as "a friend of my uncle's", where you use the post-genitive form.

You're welcome! I'll start watching the US Open (tennis) on TV in a moment but before that:

You can say: He is a friend of John, or: He is a friend of John's.

You cannot say: He is the friend of John's, except perhaps in some extremely rare cases where normal grammatical rules don't apply.

Similarly, the singing of the bird's is ungrammatical; you have to say the singing of the bird.

Re: gerund or verbal noun with an article?

Crokey — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:54:22 GMT

hi cb,
im so happy i joined this forum now, because i think your comment about verbal nouns can be modified by an adjectival attribute. You said it your previous reply, but i must have missed it(it was nearly 4am in korea when i read it!), and i think the tiresome banging of the nail's head is well and truly finished! On further research, the naming of other nouns derived from verbs, such as survival from survive or action from act, is a fairly contentious area, and i am going to take a leaf from your book, and stay the bloody-hell away from it!!! Just one other question CB,

"the singing of the bird awoke me" or "the singing of the bird's awoke me" ? as "a friend of my uncle's", where you use the post-genitive form. I would say "the bird's singing", there is probably a clear case, but after my ordeal with gerunds and verbal nouns i'm afraid to go searching now. Before the gerunds and verbal nouns i had a encounter with absolute phrases and some very confusing definitions of what differs it from participles, thankfully that is behind me now also. In that example of "the bird's singing awoke me"(just to make sure the nail doesn't spontaneously pop back up) is "singing"a gerund, because it is possible to say "the bird's loud singing awoke me", with singing modified by an adjective.

cheers again cb, really grateful.

Re: Article usage: proper noun and uncountable noun correspondence?

Cool Breeze — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 08:57:58 GMT

1. It may be unwise to say that something can be done to all proper nouns in English because there seem to be so many exceptions to every rule. However, using a and the with proper nouns in certain contexts is normal. The of-genitive - or of structure - or whatever you prefer to call it often requires the:

the England of my dreams

An adjectival attribute is a common reason for a:

We saw a sad George Bush on television last night.

He wants to live in a different England.

2. The names of cemeteries are not listed in grammar books as requiring the. Moreover, it is normal that if a name is made up of a proper noun plus a common noun, no article is used:

Gatwick Airport, Oslo University, London Bridge, Westminster Abbey

Re: several grammar questions (2)

Hoa Thai — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:45:50 GMT

Hi Avangi,

To me, grammarians always have their way, trying to make thing clear (or confusing to some). What do you think of the following quoted text regarding 's?

"Some linguists believe that English possessive is no longer a case at all, but has become a clitic, an independent particle which, however, is always pronounced as part of the preceding word. This is claimed on the basis of the following sort of example: "The king of Sparta's wife was called Helen." If the English -'s were a genitive case mark, then the wife would belong to Sparta; but the -'s attaches not to the word Sparta, but to the entire phrase the king of Sparta." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive_case

Re: several grammar questions (2)

Avangi — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:45:23 GMT

Hela wrote:

Dear teachers,

1) How would you qualify this time of genitive, please? Which "title" would you give it? Is it some sort of "human activities"? but I don't really like this.

love's spirit, science's influence, my life's aim, duty's call . wow! I remember genitive as a Latin case 60 years ago. What do you mean by "time"? Your examples are all possessive. Joe's dog= the dog of Joe. Love's spirit=the spirit of love.   What am I missing?

2) Which tenses would you use in the following sentences and why?

a) Weather conditions have improved/improved (?) during the the last few days. Present perfect means the action has been [recently] completed. Simple past would mean it happened at some time in the past. The use of "during" means it was a continuing process. "Last few days" means it continued up to the present, at which time it was completed.(Present Perfect)

- Is it possible to say "the weather conditions" or is it definitely wrong? yes

- can we say "during the last days" = without "few"? yes, but it sometimes means the last days of the universe.

b)There has been / was (?) a real fall (?) in that town's population over/during (?) the last decade.Same tense situation as example 2.  Something happened over an extended period which just ended. "Over" and "during" both work, in my humble opinion.

c)He ~~should~~ showed/assured ??? him that he doesn't have the time / time (?) to pick up the children from/at (?) school. I say both choices are acceptable in both your red group and your black group.

Woops! where did the colors go?

- Would you please tell me if the article here is obligatory and why? Why not? the time=the time required / time=any time   Both work.

- which preposition should be used? are both possible? ANSWERED

3) âDid you do both maths exercises? The first was easier than the second.â âThat's right, the first was the easier of the two.â

- Is the "M" of math capitalized ? + should we say "math" or "maths" (with âsâ = Br. Eng ; without Â« s Â» = Am. Eng ?) Math would be capitalized if you said, "I just signed up for Math." I doubt "maths" would be used in this context in either domain, but I could be wrong.

- Would you please tell me when one should use âbothâ and âthe twoâ? Is it wrong to say âdid you do the two maths exercises...â and âthe first was the easier of bothâ ? Both choices work in the first example but only "the two" works in the second.

4) My mother left on her holiday/vacation (correct?)/ went on holiday(~~s?)~~/vacation a few weeks ago.

5) I have to pick her up at/from (?) the airport on her return / when she arrives (correct?).I think these are all okay. "From" would be questioned by some.

Many thanks,   Man, I needa break!

Hela

several grammar questions (2)

Hela — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:26:22 GMT

Dear teachers,

1) How would you qualify this time of genitive, please? Which "title" would you give it? Is it some sort of "human activities"? but I don't really like this.

love's spirit, science's influence, my life's aim, duty's call .

2) Which tenses would you use in the following sentences and why?

a) Weather conditions have improved/improved (?) during the the last few days.

- Is it possible to say "the weather conditions" or is it definitely wrong?

- can we say "during the last days" = without "few"?

b)There has been / was (?) a real fall (?) in that town's population over/during (?) the last decade.

c)He should him that he doesn't have the time / time (?) to pick up the children from/at (?) school.

- Would you please tell me if the article here is obligatory and why?

- which preposition should be used? are both possible?

3) âDid you do both maths exercises? The first was easier than the second.â âThat's right, the first was the easier of the two.â

- Is the "M" of math capitalized ? + should we say "math" or "maths" (with âsâ = Br. Eng ; without Â« s Â» = Am. Eng ?)

- Would you please tell me when one should use âbothâ and âthe twoâ? Is it wrong to say âdid you do the two maths exercises...â and âthe first was the easier of bothâ ?

4) My mother left on her holiday/vacation (correct?)/ went on holiday(s?)/vacation a few weeks ago.

5) I have to pick her up at/from (?) the airport on her return / when she arrives (correct?).

Many thanks,

Hela

Re: a genitive of classification?

Believer — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:11:54 GMT

Thank you, CalfJim.

You wrote:

My daughter goes to a girls' school. This one is possible. A school for girls. It seems to me that this version without the apostrophe is also common. You might wait for a second opinion on this. >>

In regard to my initial question of whether an article is used in "lions' den" in normal situations, I believe your response was that it is used. Would you say, then, it is similar, if not alike, to the one I quoted above? "a girls' school" means "a school for girls" and "a lions' den" denotes "a den for lions" (or something similar to that ...)

Let us assume plumbers hold their annual conference in a big city. I think the distinction can be made between "a plumbers' conference" and "a plumbers conference" based on whether you are focusing on their possession of the conference or their membership part of the conference. I am writing this but I do not know how to apply this in real world.

Possible name for a center to help local runaway children in the Nowhere city? Nowhere Runaway Children Help Center?? Why not? Nowhere Runaway Children's Help Center

Possible name for a center to help local battered women in the Nowhere city? Nowhere Battered Women Help Center?? Why not? Nowhere Battered Women's Help Center.

Would you say the first choices are better because they are focusing on the group (membership) part of the conference? My big question is "How would you know whether a name is focusing on its membership or its possession of the entity?" I think that will help me put the apostrophe in the right place. It seems to be clear that women and children don't own the centers for the examples above.