Search results for 'tag:Articles tag:Subjunctives' matching tags 'Articles' and 'Subjunctives'

Re: Native-speaker/native language

Tanit — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:03:57 GMT

Forbes

I remember listening to a radio programme about the varieties of forms of speech in Italy ... They simply change language like they change clothes without worrying about the status of their "home" speech.

There's some truth in that article. My parents, for instance, used to speak in Sardinian (not a dialect, but recognised as an endangered language by the UNESCO) when talking to each other or to their relatives, but they would only speak Italian with my brother and me. I grew up monolingual, and although I can understand Sardinian, I am unable to articulate a sentence that contains more than a few words!

Many people who speak both Italian and their dialect, although able to switch from the first to the second depending on the context, speak a form of Italian that I would classify as regional and sub-standard. I noticed that people from Southern Italy (I have little experience of Northern Italy) who speak also a dialect usually don't speak standard Italian, but a form of language deeply affected by their dialect. Accent is not an issue. I find some grammatical structures odd, as well as the choice of some verb modes, tenses and aspects (ex. past simple versus present perfect, indicative versus subjunctive), and have problems with some vocabulary (let alone idioms, of course). I am usually able to understand the general meaning, though.

Re: worse/worst

Goodman — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:30:43 GMT

New2grammar wrote:

worse comes to [worse/worst]

Which of the choices is correct for the common phrase above?

Thanks in advance!

Hi New2grammar,

This should help you clear up any question you may have:

Kenneth G. Wilson (1923â). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

if (when) worse (worst) come(s) to worst

These clichÃ©s are variations of the same locution (sometimes the article the is added before one or both of the worse/worsts), each meaning essentially âIf the worst that can happen actually does happenâ or âIf this already bad situation gets as bad as can be.â All these variations are idiomatic (even though if worst comes to worst is probably a distortion of if worse comes to worst), and all are Standard, whether the verb is indicative or subjunctive, as in If worse come[s] to worst.

Re: wish clauses

Goodman — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:52:34 GMT

Yoong Liat wrote:
Hi Goodman

You wrote: I have been labeled and called by many descriptions, hinted being âIgnorantâ is the first ...

I'm not hinting that you're ignorant. I say that if a learner tells me "informal" means "wrong", I'll understand that he says so because he is ignorant. But you are not a learner. You're one of the members who have a good command of English. So that's why I say it's not correct for you to say that a usage, which is classified as "informal", is wrong.

I've reproduced below what Michael Swan has to say about "I wish I was ... " and "I wish it wasn't ..." and let the members decide whether you're right to say "I wish it was not raining" or "I wish it wasn't raining" is a wrong usage.

We can use 'wish' to express regrets - to say that we would like things to be different. We use a past tense with a present meaning in this case.
I wish I was better-looking.
I wish it wasn't raining.

In a formal style, we can use 'were' instead of 'was' after 'I wish'.
I wish I were better-looking.

(Basic English Usage by Michael Swan)

Best wishes.

Liat,

With our differences in point of view, I appreciate your reply. For all intents and an purposes, I am still a learner on a different level but I perhaps have the advantage being in a completely English environment and therefore, I may appear to have better command. That said, I do feel there is a certain slight inconsistency among all the different English websites, particularly on the subjunctive. There should not be any argument that âIf I wereâ or âI wish I wereâ is a subjunctive mood. The difference of the agruement really lies in the defining of the rules and the mood expressed in the senstence. The early website quoted âI wish I wasâ as informal.

In reality, after reading this article, that is indeed incorrect. The bottom line, " I wish I was" is against the subjunctive ruels. Take a look at the explanation on this website then you may come to agree with what I said in my earlier threads.

Confusingly enough, in the "self test", some of of the answers are considered "acceptable" or "informal" by some. I should hope that this piece will settle all questions about indicative and subjunctive moods.

Subjunctive Mood

However, if a form of the verb to be were used in that sentence, all polished writers would agree that the subjunctive is necessary: "If he were [not was] ...
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	Writing Tip: July 30, 2001 The Subjunctive Mood Examine the verbs in each of the following sentences: 1. If Harrison were chosen to be the next chief executive officer of the corporation, several controversial hiring practices would change. 2. If I were you, I would increase my weekly contribution to the company-sponsored retirement fund. 3. I wish that his report were longer. 4. We recommend that the trip be postponed because of violence in the region. 5. The finance department requests that he submit updated budget projections each month. All the above sentences are correct. Two terms apply to the mood of English verbs: indicative and subjunctive. An indicative verb makes a statement that is factual, whereas a verb in the subjunctive mood is used to indicate a situation or condition that is hypothetical, doubtful, or conditional. In the indicative mood, we would never write "Harrison were," "I were," "report were," "trip be," or "he submit," but these verbs are correct in the examples above because each of the sentences is written in the subjunctive mood; that is, in every case, the sentence is describing a situation that is hypothetical or conditional: 1. Harrison is not now the C.E.O., but hypothetically he could be chosen for that position. The conditional nature of the position is suggested by the word if. 2. Again, as the word if makes clear, I am not, in fact, you. So once again the situation is hypothetical and conditional: I would save more only under the condition that I became you. 3. His report is not, in fact, longer, so the sentence speaks of a hypothetical situation. 4. The trip is not currently postponed, so the subjunctive mood is appropriate to suggest a possibility, not an actuality. 5. He is not currently submitting reports monthly, so we use the subjunctive mood to discuss the possibility--not the actuality--of his doing so. For all verbs except to be, the present subjunctive mood is most often made by omitting the characteristic s ending on verbs with third-person singular subjects. Thus, whereas in the indicative mood we would write "man leaves," in the subjunctive mood we would omit the s on the verb leave: "The judge insisted that the man not leave town." For the verb to be, we simply use be for all present tense subjunctive mood verbs and were for all past tense forms, regardless of whether the subject is singular or plural. The Columbia Guide to Standard American English (New York: MJF Books, 1993) points out that while many subjunctive-mood phrases are commonly used in ordinary speech--"if I were you," "if need be," "far be it from me," and so on--strict use of the subjunctive mood is rare, even in the most formal speaking and writing situations (243). Very few people would write, for example, "If he arrive on time, we will have dinner before the show." However, if a form of the verb to be were used in that sentence, all polished writers would agree that the subjunctive is necessary: "If he were [not was] to arrive on time, we could have dinner before the show." The Harbrace College Handbook (13th edition) lists other common, fixed expressions that are stated in the subjunctive mood: "so be it," "be that as it may," "as it were," and "God bless you" (99-100). TEST YOURSELF Which of the following sentences need verbs in the subjunctive mood? 1. If I was Sam, I would hire an assistant now before the hiring freeze takes effect. 2. The committee suggested that Dr. Jones is chosen as the next chief of staff. 3. As August approaches, every school child wishes that his or her vacation was longer. 4. It is critical that every potential donor gives blood during this shortage. ANSWERS 1. If I WERE Sam, I would hire an assistant now before the hiring freeze takes effect. 2. The committee suggested that Dr. Jones BE chosen as the next chief of staff. 3. As August approaches, every school child wishes that his or her vacation WERE longer. This is almost the exact sentence identified as correct in your past post. 4. It is critical that every potential donor GIVE blood during this shortage. Copyright 2001 Get It Write More Tips \| Tell a Friend *Special Request:* Please share these tips with friends and colleagues and encourage them to subscribe. (If you post the tips to an internal distribution list of any size, please tell us the nature of the list and the number of subscribers. We would like to know how many people we are reaching with this service. We appreciate your positive feedback and excellent comments!)

Re: subjunctives (sequence of moods)

SJ88 — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:11:28 GMT

Hi Marius

I agree; the use of "is" in the above case is getting more common. But as the article you pointed out mentioned, "was" is more traditional. As it is with many aspects of English, i suppose it's up to one's own discretion and preference =)

Anyway, thanks for your help people! =)

Re: Conditional dilemma

Cool Breeze — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:06:10 GMT

Believer wrote:
Side question: A lot of dictionaries seem to indicate that the word 'subjunctive' is usually precede with the article 'the', but lately I seem to see cases where it is made plural or it with 'a' in front of it (like 'a subjunctive'). Are they correct? are

Hi Believer

Grammatical terms are often used with the:

This sentence is in the passive (voice).
The past tense is different from the present tense.

However, even though they often take the definite article, nothing prevents you from putting them in the plural or using a with them when it seems appropriate:

There isn't a single subjunctive in the entire paragraph.

Cheers
CB

Re: Conditional dilemma

Philip — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:45:09 GMT

Believer wrote:

1.If I worked more diligently, I would buy more bacon.

2. If I had money, I would buy a Lexus.

3. If I had been talking with him at the meeting, I would have recognized that he is my cousin.

4. If I had won the match, I would have become famous.

Would you say all the above sentences, which I believe are type 2 or 3 unreal conditionals, are in the subjective mood?

So, some condtionals are the subjuntive, aren't they?

Side question: A lot of dictionaries seem to indicate that the word 'subjunctive' is usually precede with the article 'the', but lately I seem to see cases where it is made plural or it with 'a' in front of it (like 'a subjunctive'). Are they correct? are

As I indicated to you once before, the subjunctive mood is often difficult to identify when you come across it because it is appears the same as some other tense. This is true with all four sentences above. The most common "different form" cases are the first-singlular and the third-singular. And this is true only of some verbs. (If I were you, if here were here).

I do not understand your side question. Details?

Conditional dilemma

Believer — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 13:29:13 GMT

Hi,

I was trying to brush up on the conditional and subjunctive and came upon a question or two. I hope you could help.

In conditionals, there seem to be names like 'present unreal conditional', 'past unreal conditional' and 'future unreal conditional', and as far as I know, the subjunctive mood is created when contrary-to-fact, hypothetical, or dubious situation is represented and some conditionals are the subjunctive in mood.

eg,

1.If I worked more diligently, I would buy more bacon.

2. If I had money, I would buy a Lexus.

3. If I had been talking with him at the meeting, I would have recognized that he is my cousin.

4. If I had won the match, I would have become famous.

Would you say all the above sentences, which I believe are type 2 or 3 unreal conditionals, are in the subjective mood?

So, some condtionals are the subjuntive, aren't they?

Side question: A lot of dictionaries seem to indicate that the word 'subjunctive' is usually precede with the article 'the', but lately I seem to see cases where it is made plural or it with 'a' in front of it (like 'a subjunctive'). Are they correct? are

Re: Is this subjunctive?

Grammarian-bot — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 02:11:01 GMT

Cool Breeze wrote:
Grammarian-bot wrote:
Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can care for sick or newborn children.

I have a serious problem with deciding when to use prepositions before verbs and when not to. Any help/suggestions.

Hi GB

The to in your sentence isn't a preposition. It's a particle that is part of the infinitive. As a rule to is used

1. after verbs: I want to go there.
2. after nouns: I had an opportunity to visit Cairo.
3. after adjectives: It's easy to speak English.

Some common cases in which to is omitted:

1. after do, does, did: Did you see him? I do like that hat!
2. after a defective/modal auxiliary: I will see him tomorrow. Can you come with us?
3. after a verb denoting perception in the active voice: I heard him say that. I didn't see him come.
But: He was seen to come.
4. after make in the active voice: It made me smile. John's mother made him do his homework.
But: John was made to do his homework.
5. after let: Let me go! (Let is not used in the passive voice; allow or permit should be used instead: I was allowed/permitted to go out.
6. In question-like exclamations beginning with why if a verb follows immediately: Why do it now? Why not do it now?

There are other cases but you'll be just fine with these for a start.

If to is a preposition before a verb, the verb must have an ing-ending:

I am used to warm weather. (To is a preposition, we can tell that from the fact that warm is an adjective and weather is a noun.)
So: I am used to getting up early.

Cheers
CB

Great Job every one. Thanks a lot.

Cool Breeze, this post goes directly on my desktop.

Thanks a zillion.

GB

Re: Is this subjunctive?

Cool Breeze — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:26:15 GMT

Grammarian-bot wrote:
Congress is debating a bill requiring certain employers to provide workers with unpaid leave so that they can care for sick or newborn children.

I have a serious problem with deciding when to use prepositions before verbs and when not to. Any help/suggestions.

Hi GB

The to in your sentence isn't a preposition. It's a particle that is part of the infinitive. As a rule to is used

1. after verbs: I want to go there.
2. after nouns: I had an opportunity to visit Cairo.
3. after adjectives: It's easy to speak English.

Some common cases in which to is omitted:

1. after do, does, did: Did you see him? I do like that hat!
2. after a defective/modal auxiliary: I will see him tomorrow. Can you come with us?
3. after a verb denoting perception in the active voice: I heard him say that. I didn't see him come.
But: He was seen to come.
4. after make in the active voice: It made me smile. John's mother made him do his homework.
But: John was made to do his homework.
5. after let: Let me go! (Let is not used in the passive voice; allow or permit should be used instead: I was allowed/permitted to go out.
6. In question-like exclamations beginning with why if a verb follows immediately: Why do it now? Why not do it now?

There are other cases but you'll be just fine with these for a start.

If to is a preposition before a verb, the verb must have an ing-ending:

I am used to warm weather. (To is a preposition, we can tell that from the fact that warm is an adjective and weather is a noun.)
So: I am used to getting up early.

Cheers
CB

Re: Subjunctive using modal verb

Mister Micawber — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:28:53 GMT

With further consideration, I can only think that the author of the Wikipedia article on 'Subjunctive Mood' is considering the idea in its widest sense-- as 'any verb or structure that expresses a condition which is doubtful or not factual'. This is interesting for linguistic purposes, but is not of much help in working with grammar and with especially the few remaining subjunctive verb forms that remain to English.

For a shorter but more standard interpretation, have a look at this American Heritage article. Look for instance at how this article relates the association of subjunctive and modal: 'English has had a subjunctive mood since Old English times, but most of the functions of the old subjunctive have been taken over by auxiliary verbs like may and should, and the subjunctive survives only in very limited situations.'

Once more, the modals are not omittable from your latter two sentences-- the remaining verb is not in the subjunctive (it is actually an infinitive). It is the modal + infinitive (should keep, might remember) that together replace the subjunctive that presumably was once used in these kinds of sentences.



GIW Home		writeDate(); Mon Oct. 8, 2007 \| Tell a Friend \| Subscribe \| Order Our Book
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	Writing Tip: July 30, 2001 The Subjunctive Mood Examine the verbs in each of the following sentences: 1. If Harrison were chosen to be the next chief executive officer of the corporation, several controversial hiring practices would change. 2. If I were you, I would increase my weekly contribution to the company-sponsored retirement fund. 3. I wish that his report were longer. 4. We recommend that the trip be postponed because of violence in the region. 5. The finance department requests that he submit updated budget projections each month. All the above sentences are correct. Two terms apply to the mood of English verbs: indicative and subjunctive. An indicative verb makes a statement that is factual, whereas a verb in the subjunctive mood is used to indicate a situation or condition that is hypothetical, doubtful, or conditional. In the indicative mood, we would never write "Harrison were," "I were," "report were," "trip be," or "he submit," but these verbs are correct in the examples above because each of the sentences is written in the subjunctive mood; that is, in every case, the sentence is describing a situation that is hypothetical or conditional: 1. Harrison is not now the C.E.O., but hypothetically he could be chosen for that position. The conditional nature of the position is suggested by the word if. 2. Again, as the word if makes clear, I am not, in fact, you. So once again the situation is hypothetical and conditional: I would save more only under the condition that I became you. 3. His report is not, in fact, longer, so the sentence speaks of a hypothetical situation. 4. The trip is not currently postponed, so the subjunctive mood is appropriate to suggest a possibility, not an actuality. 5. He is not currently submitting reports monthly, so we use the subjunctive mood to discuss the possibility--not the actuality--of his doing so. For all verbs except to be, the present subjunctive mood is most often made by omitting the characteristic s ending on verbs with third-person singular subjects. Thus, whereas in the indicative mood we would write "man leaves," in the subjunctive mood we would omit the s on the verb leave: "The judge insisted that the man not leave town." For the verb to be, we simply use be for all present tense subjunctive mood verbs and were for all past tense forms, regardless of whether the subject is singular or plural. The Columbia Guide to Standard American English (New York: MJF Books, 1993) points out that while many subjunctive-mood phrases are commonly used in ordinary speech--"if I were you," "if need be," "far be it from me," and so on--strict use of the subjunctive mood is rare, even in the most formal speaking and writing situations (243). Very few people would write, for example, "If he arrive on time, we will have dinner before the show." However, if a form of the verb to be were used in that sentence, all polished writers would agree that the subjunctive is necessary: "If he were [not was] to arrive on time, we could have dinner before the show." The Harbrace College Handbook (13th edition) lists other common, fixed expressions that are stated in the subjunctive mood: "so be it," "be that as it may," "as it were," and "God bless you" (99-100). TEST YOURSELF Which of the following sentences need verbs in the subjunctive mood? 1. If I was Sam, I would hire an assistant now before the hiring freeze takes effect. 2. The committee suggested that Dr. Jones is chosen as the next chief of staff. 3. As August approaches, every school child wishes that his or her vacation was longer. 4. It is critical that every potential donor gives blood during this shortage. ANSWERS 1. If I WERE Sam, I would hire an assistant now before the hiring freeze takes effect. 2. The committee suggested that Dr. Jones BE chosen as the next chief of staff. 3. As August approaches, every school child wishes that his or her vacation WERE longer. This is almost the exact sentence identified as correct in your past post. 4. It is critical that every potential donor GIVE blood during this shortage. Copyright 2001 Get It Write More Tips \| Tell a Friend *Special Request:* Please share these tips with friends and colleagues and encourage them to subscribe. (If you post the tips to an internal distribution list of any size, please tell us the nature of the list and the number of subscribers. We would like to know how many people we are reaching with this service. We appreciate your positive feedback and excellent comments!)