Search results for 'tag:Commas tag:Noun phrases' matching tags 'Commas' and 'Noun phrases'

Re: Plz Correct me !

Grammar Geek — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:05:57 GMT

You can lift the part set off by commas entirely out of the sentence.

The soft curtain, hanging from a rod at the upper edge of the window, sways rhythmetically in the breeze, repeatedly brushing my chair.

The soft curtain sways rhythmetically in the breeze, repeatedly brushing my chair.

You set these entire "removable" phrases that contain the extra information off with a comma on each side.

Some of your earlier examples did NOT have a non-essential phrase set off with commas. They just had long noun phrases, a comma, and then the verb phrase.

Re: These days/Recently/On these days,

Hoa Thai — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:14:24 GMT

Hi Amy,

First, if you'll forgive my saying so, I think you read me wrong when you felt annoyed by me throwing examples to prove my points. I was not trying to prove either you or Hancu wrong but to look for a different answer from just a simple âNoâ or âBadâ. You do understand how learners would feel when they receive such a terse and clipped response â I believe. And often such response would force learners to ask for further clarification. The whole exchange becomes less productive and ineffective.

âYou is stupidâ is definitely wrong no matter how we look at it. However, any phrase, especially a noun phrase with proper order of words, in itself can only be inappropriately / inelegantly used, but âbadâ, which has a wide range of meaning. Of course, âThese daysâ in place of âNowadaysâ is better than âIn these daysâ. However, the latter in itself is not âbadâ.

I believe students would appreciate if teachers can go one-step further telling them that the usage of a phrase does not fit in this way but it would fit well in another way â even when the âanother wayâ is rare. Without a follow up, it could be potentially easy for the students to make another mistake when they think its usage is wrong everywhere, in every application. That is more damaging â I think!

Yes! You are right â I am very stubborn. My most loved teacher said so to me too. I would not accept his teaching if he kept telling me, âit is wrongâ without any further explanation. And if he kept wiggling out of his way by saying nobody uses it, I would come back to show him otherwise if I do find people use it effectively. To me, teaching is the most honored profession because it is done for the benefits of the students more than for those of the teachers. The more one does in a volunteering job, the more one needs to work harder; the more one is honored, the more one needs to show care. Those are just virtues of givers anyway.

You did exactly what I expected from a good teacher. You explained and gave examples when you felt that I did not quite grasp the connection between âInâ and âdaysâ as I made a questionable observation through the plural connection.

You also offered âIn those days,â to replace âIn these days,â. However, as soon as I saw that offer, I sensed that you were telling me that the use of âtheseâ is odd, because âIn those daysâ does not even fit well with the original question, which looked for a ânowâ meaning. As I said earlier, I did not see the oddity of 'In these days' (and I still do not). That is the reason why I kept throwing examples! In fact, if you search for â[In these days,â you should find a lot of hits and they are used by many professional writers (if you allow me to add lawyers to the group ).

In short, what I have been looking for is an explanation to why âIn these days,â or 'In these days and ages,' is bad. You said that people might use them a) for special reasons, b) for their âcompany slangâ, or c) without realizing of making mistakes. No matter what, when reputable organizations publish their works for public reading, they must be aware of the potential impact of every element in prints in spite of usage rarity. Within a group of scholars, oddity does not go unnoticed! They do not think it is odd, but you do. Therefore, I need to know, where such an oddity in your thought comes from. As a learner, I would be regarded as a fool to tell those writers âIn these days,â is bad English. However, as a scholar in the art of using English, you should be able to defend yourself when people ask you why you think so.

Thank you for your assessment about my analyzing ability. However, with what I got, I still donât know why âtheseâ is such a bad word to use in the context of âIn these days,â (starting a sentence and is followed by a comma). Again, it can be inappropriate with an attached context, a relationship to something, but it cannot be âbadâ just by itself.

Thanks and Best Regards,
Hoa Thai

Re: CPE sentence transformation

Hoa Thai — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 01:16:36 GMT

Hi,

1. Attentively, he looks at each picture in the huge photo album to search for a familiar face that he can vaguely remember.
2. Attentively, he looks at each picture in the huge photo album searching for a familiar face that he can vaguely remember.

You wrote, âI wouldn't disagree with your suggestion that the second example here is better than the first. To me, 'searching' suggests a single activity that continues while perhaps hundreds of photos are looked at. On the other hand, 'to search' suggests a series of discrete activities that start/stop as each photo is looked at. The 'searching' activity with a long and single duration is obviously more intense.â That is also an instruction that we received from our teacher. Stretch was his keyword.

Now, regarding the two sentences you asked me to give some thought:

He ran as fast as he could, to try to win a gold medal.
He ran as fast as he could, trying to win a gold medal.

First, I think the comma weakens the entire sentence too drastically. We should remove the comma. Even without the comma, I still think the first one is better because the emotion is not strong in the main clause. Rule #1, âTo unleash the power of verb chose infinitive over gerund and noun phrases,â should be applied to add weight to the entire sentence.

However, letâs use âto try to winâ and âtrying to winâ in the two following sentences:

With the loving fatherâs image in his heart, John relentlessly pushes his body to the limit to try to win a gold medal.
With the loving fatherâs image in his heart, John relentlessly pushes his body to the limit trying to win a gold medal.

What do you think? To me, the second sentence is better using rule #2, âsoften the verb by using gerund to stretch a longing / yearning emotion.â In fact, the first one does not even flow well; somehow, its rhythm changes too sharply and abruptly when âto try to winâ arrives.

That said, I think you are right to suggest that we should use the word guideline instead of rule - a guideline with a merit though.

Thank you very much for spending your time discussing this with me. For me, it has been a good educational exercise and a great pleasure!

Hoa Thai

Re: Help: What kind of phrase is this?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 06:26:22 GMT

so, the forefathers mispunctuated the 2nd amendment when they wrote:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

in this case, the right of the people to keep and bear arms is the noun phrase, yes? but that comma seperates it from the verb making the subject " militia," am i wrong? if this is the case, then "the right..." is an apossitive with "to keep and bear arms", the adjective infinitive. the only reason why i don't see this working is that the appositive should be the second element immediately following "militia". i'm sorry. just trying to understand.

to me, it appears that with the commas there, "being necessary..." and "the right..." both modify "militia" as the subject.

i can't see a group of men who were grammar masters making the mistake of putting in not one, but two commas in the wrong place. are there any exceptions that make my reasoning sound? am i crazy? thanks with the help so far. what you have said makes perfect sense, except those commas are somehow necessary to the sentence structure.

Re: Help: What kind of phrase is this?

Clive — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 05:06:00 GMT

Hi,

I know this may seem so simple, but i just am not getting it.

What kind of phrase is " the right to keep a secret" in this sentence?

"Her privacy, being indispensable to her, the right to keep a secret, does not matter to me." This is not correctly punctuated. The commas that I have marked in red should not be there.

I think it's an adjective infinitive, but at first i thought it was an appositive (noun)phrase. I'm really confused. I hope the revised puctuation lets you see that the phrase is not an appositive.

Also, I cannot figure out which is the subject. is it privacy or right? In the grammar system that I learnded and use, the right to keep a secret would be called 'a noun phrase'. It is the subject of the sentence.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: Comma, hyphen, slash, or a combo?

Clive — Wed, 23 May 2007 22:59:24 GMT

Hi Andrew,

How would you punctuate this:

Clearly, the one gene-one protein relationship does not apply to schizophrenia.

One gene-one protein relationship? One-gene one-protein relationship? One-gene/one-protein relationship? One gene, one protein relationship? Some other way?

I'm leaning toward separating the one gene and one protein with a comma because the comma would then serve as a substitution for an implied and: Clearly, the one gene [and] one protein relationship does not apply to schizophrenia.

Or if you're alienated by the scientific context, there might be the same issue with a sentence like this: They were a one child, one parent family. I agree with you about the comma. However, . . . .

Personally, I don't like this kind of sentence in situations where I want to be precise. I'd prefer to write something like They were a family that consisted of one child and one parent. The precise meaning of 'a one-child, one parent family' seems unclear to me. Is it a family that has several children but only wants one? Or a family with two parents, and two children, and each parent takes care of only one of the children? I know these are rather silly examples, but my point is that, when you just pile noun phrases in front of another noun, the precise relationship and meaning start to get lost.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: Need Help. Articles!!!

Clive — Fri, 11 May 2007 01:43:07 GMT

Hi Max,

Welcome to the Forum.

Here are a couple of comments.

What are the general rules applied to the phrases like this: He worked for telecommunication company Brittish Telecome. Nordic operator Telenor announced the acquisition of .... . What article is to be used before telecommunication company BT and Nordic operator Telenor, if any.
Could you also submit a link to the rules regulating the use of these noun phrases?
Thank you very much for help.

As regards your first phrase, I would write and punctuate it this way. He worked for the telecommunication company, British Telecom. You can see that it is not all one single, long phrase, but rather two phrases in apposition, separated by a comma. When you look at it this way, it seems clear that the normal rules of articles require the specific article 'the' to qualify the noun 'company'.

Now let's look at your second phrase. The way you have written it seems to be to be in a 'newspaper headline' kind of style. Headlines often stretch or ignore rules for the use of articles and other features of grammar. I would write and punctuate it as The Nordic operator, Telenor, announced the acquisition of IBM. As with the first example, here again, when you look at it this way, the noun 'operator' clearly seems to need the specific article 'the', in accordance with the normal, everyday rules for the use of articles.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: Comma or Colon?

Dawnstorm — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:11:28 GMT

1. The comma is correct; it's the convention for dialogue punctuation in fiction. I suppose this holds true for film-quotes, too.

2. Generally, there are two ways to treat "Dirty Hairy" (shouldn't this be "Dirty Harry"?):

Apposition: ...in Clint Eastwood's 1971 film, Dirty Hairy, ... (what you did with "Harry Callahan")

As head of a noun phrase: ...in the 1971 film Dirty Hairy...

Only the appositive use takes commas, but then you'd have to make one after "film" as well. This sounds strange to me.

This is how I see the subject of your sentence:

Clint Eastwood's Character, Harry Calahan, in the 1971 film Dirty Hairy = Subject.

OR

Clint Eastwood's Character, Harry Calahan, = Subject // in the 1971 film Dirty Hairy = another adverbial clause ("with... thief" is the first one)

If the former, the sentence could read like this:

With his oversized gun drawn and pointed at the head of a hapless thief, Harry Calahan, Clint Eastwood's Character in the 1971 film Dirty Hairy, uttered his famous catchphrase, "..." (Pretty much what Marius Hancu did, come to think of it, only I made Harry Calahan the subject, and the character-phrase the apposition.)

If the latter, it could read like this:

With his oversized gun drawn and pointed at the head of a hapless thief, Clint Eastwood's character, Harry Calahan, uttered, in the 1971 film Dirty Hairy, his famous catchphrase, "..." (This is so awkward, though, that I'd prefer the above version, even if the original intention was to say that Callahan uttered the phrase in Dirty Hairy, and not in any of the other "Dirty Harry" films.)

I don't think anything's wrong with the punctuation in your original sentence, though.

Re: how to link adjectives

Yankee — Sun, 24 Dec 2006 10:29:14 GMT

Hi Hela
My comments are in the quote.

Hela wrote:
1) When we have a couple adjectives describing the same thing (e.g. material) don't we list them in alphabetical order? No

- a Concrete and Glass building That was your word order. You could also say "a glass and concrete building" or " a building built mainly of glass and concrete", etc.
- a peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich
To me, peanut butter always and only begins with a 'P'.

But it's true that you've written "a gorgeous Silk and Satin dress".

2) Would the use of a comma change the meaning of a noun phrase?

a) a polite young man = a man who is polite and young.

   a tall white horse = a horse which is tall and white.

b) a polite, young man = a young man who is polite.

   a tall, white horse = a white horse which is tall.
Or do they all have, in the end, the same meaning? The comma does not change the meaning in these examples. It's simply unnecessary.

3) Would you please tell me if the following sentences are correct (= make sense)?

1. The weather was foul and depressing. OK
2. He is a happy and confident child. OK -- and you could also say "He is a happy, confident child." (i.e., The comma would be appropriate.)
3. Her expression was cold and enigmatic. OK

4. She has long rounded legs. (possible?) OK (with a comma is also possible but not absolutely necessary IMHO.) 'Rounded' is OK.

5. She bought a bronze and crystal centre light. OK

6. The Mercedes is a powerful and secure car. OK -- but "safe" is a better word than "secure"

7. They were laying a green and black carpet in the hotel lobby. OK

8. They ordered a set of metal and plasticchairs. The chairs are hard for me to picture or imagine, so the adjectives aren't doing their job very well. I'd prefer a different method of description. For example, "... metal chairs with plastic trim."

9. The police got hold of cargo of foul and rotting meat. To me, "foul " would describe "rotting meat" so I'd prefer this wording: "...a cargo of foul rotting meat."

10. He played the wrong note. Did you intend to include an additional adjective?

11. He has thick arched black eyebrows. I don't like this combination very much. I'd eliminate 'arched' and reword somehow. If I weren't allowed to remove 'arched' from the string of adjectives, I'd probably write: "He has arched, thick black eyebrows."
12. He is going to fall asleep in the next ten minutes. OK
13. The old wooden roof of the church didnât resist (?) the storm.   "The old wooden roof of the church didnât withstand / survive the storm."

14. During the first three days after the surgery I felt really bad. OR --> "For the first three days after the surgery, I felt really bad."

15. The model walked down the podium with an elegant classy fur coat. "The model walked down the runway/catwalk/ramp with an elegant fur coat". (To me, using both classy and elegant is redundant.)

(what's the verb used to talk about models "parading" in a fashion show?)
It depends on the "attitude" the model assumes -- there are a variety of possible types of walking. I guess 'sashay' would often be a good word. Here are some possibilites:
The model sashayed/paraded/strutted/strolled/catwalked/swung/moseyed down the runway.

I look forward to the answer that will be given to Downstorm.

Many thanks and Merry Christmas to you all. Happy holidays to you too, Hela.

Hela

Re: how to link adjectives

Hela — Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:18:38 GMT

Thank you Yankee for your comments.

1) When we have a couple adjectives describing the same thing (e.g. material) don't we list them in alphabetical order?

- a Concrete and Glass building
- a peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich

But it's true that you've written "a gorgeous Silk and Satin dress".

2) Would the use of a comma change the meaning of a noun phrase?

a) a polite young man = a man who is polite and young.

a tall white horse = a horse which is tall and white.

b) a polite, young man = a young man who is polite.

a tall, white horse = a white horse which is tall.

Or do they all have, in the end, the same meaning?

3) Would you please tell me if the following sentences are correct (= make sense)?

1. The weather was foul and depressing.

2. He is a happy and confident child.

3. Her expression was cold and enigmatic.

4. She has long rounded legs. (possible?)

5. She bought a bronze and crystal centre light.

6. The Mercedes is a powerful and secure car.

7. They were laying a green and black carpet in the hotel lobby.

8. They ordered a set of metal and plasticchairs.

9. The police got hold of cargo of foul and rotting meat.

10. He played the wrong note.

11. He has thick arched black eyebrows.

12. He is going to fall asleep in the next ten minutes.

13. The old wooden roof of the church didnât resist (?) the storm.

14. During the first three days after the surgery I felt really bad.

15. The model walked down the podium with an elegant classy fur coat.

(what's the verb used to talk about models "parading" in a fashion show?)

I look forward to the answer that will be given to Downstorm.

Many thanks and Merry Christmas to you all.

Hela