Search results for 'tag:Conditionals' matching tag 'Conditionals'

Re: Use of conditional verb prior to an infinitive clause / object complement

Marius Hancu — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:47:34 GMT

Your sentence is more polite and as a result much more frequent:

607 on "I would like for you to go"

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22I+would+like+for+you+to+go%22&btnG=Search+Books

233 on "I'd like for you to go"

http://books.google.com/books?q=%22I%27d+like+for+you+to+go%22&btnG=Search+Books

3 on "I like for you to go"

Forget about your other considerations, they're not quite valid.

Use of conditional verb prior to an infinitive clause / object complement

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:17:48 GMT

Hi all,

Thanks in advance for your help in answering this question. I'm trying to explain to a non-native English speaker that a certain usage is either incorrect or awkward, but I find myself unable to do so. At this point, I'm just confusing myself in trying to explain it.

So her construction is:

"I like for you to go to my friend's house in three weeks."

My correction would be:

"I would like for you to go to my friend's house in three weeks."

My reasoning is that including the word "would" allows for a better logical continuity of tenses. I have tried to explain this via continuity of verb tense and the nature of the conditional word "would"-- but I am not a grammarian and my explanations are either imprecise or wholly inaccurate. On that note,

1) Is my correction correct?

2) Is there a rule which either supports or refutes this correction?

Kind regards,
A.S.

Re: No condition

MrPedantic — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:55:45 GMT

MrPedantic

Milky wrote:

Is it true that this has no conditional meaning?

"If she will eat so many chocolates, it's hardly surprising she has a spotty face."

I would not myself include it among the traditional "types" (i.e. 0 to 3) of conditional. If we omit "will", the underlying sense seems to be:

1. Accepting the fact that she does X, Y is not surprising.

The "will" seems to inject a greater sense of "insistence" on her part. To judge by other threads I've engaged in, the usage with "will" does seem to be more familiar to BrE speakers.

MrP

I'm not sure the underlined part is a correct interpretation, on reflection. Maybe:

1a. Seeing that she does X, Y is not surprising.

MrP

Re: conditional

CalifJim — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:59:55 GMT

Anonymous
Would you please let me know as soon as possible if you would like to attend this seminar.

Correct.

Anonymous
If you would hand me that spoon, I will/would appreciate it.

would OK, not will.

Anonymous
If you would give me a pen,I would give you a pencil.

Just barely OK. More idiomatic with will, thus: If you'll give me a pen, I'll give you a pencil.

Anonymous
He looks as if he is about to cry. - first conditional?
He looked as if he were going to cry.- second conditional?

I'm not aware of any classification of the as if constructions into first, second, and third. From what I've seen, they can parallel the first, second, and third conditionals in their tense patterns, but usage is much more free. That is, they don't always conform strictly to those numbered conditional patterns. Like so many other cases, the "past" form can be borrowed into a present tense setting, thus: He looks as if he were about to cry.

conditional

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:32:35 GMT

Hi,
Please tell me if these what looks to be conditionals are correct.

Would you please let me know as soon as possible if you would like to attend this seminar.

I think CalifJim said something like the modal 'would' is possible in the if-clause, if you meant it as a sign of politeness. Someting like this:

If you would hand me that spoon, I will/would appreciate it. -- I think both 'will' and 'would' are possible here.

And I think he also seemed to have said something like the if part and the main part are expecting something reciprocal, then the modal 'would' is possible in the if-clase and/or main clause.

If you would give me a pen,I would give you a pencil.

Does the words 'as if' the same effect as 'if'? I see them in sentences that are similar to conditionals but am not sure.

He looks as if he is about to cry. - first conditional?
He looked as if he were going to cry.- second conditional?

Re: tense check

Clive — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:29:55 GMT

Hi again,

Thank you so much again.

Here,

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this? Yes,but does it have to be "will"? I thinK we can say, "I would be playing chess when he comes home," giving the element of conditional that the modal "would" imparts. On the second thought, it would go against the no. 1 conditional structure and that wouldn't be good, IMO. Then, again, what can I do to send a message of uncertainly by the use of a verb form, still keeping the word "will"? How about saying something like "I think maybe I will . . . '?

Always have to be this?

When Joe comes home an hour later, he will (probably) - not would?? - be waiting for me at the bus stop with an umbrella so I won't get wet.
Will -not would??- Joe wait for me with an umbrella when I arrived at the bus stop an hour later?
What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me.
Will - not would?? - he be going out with Jane if she asks him out?

Always have to be a "definite" "will"? How can I impart a conditional element (if it is possible) with a touch of hesitation to a sentence that has "will"?

If you say something like What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me, you are mixing conditional factual elements. Instead, you need to say one or other of the following.

What Joe will do when Jane comes back is beyond me.

What Joe would do if Jane comes back is beyond me.

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called. Yes, I think this situation would create that doubt on the part of a reader, but can you think of a sitution or two where it is OK, although not preferable, not to make it a past perfect but leave it as a past and leave to the readers to figure out the sequence involved? Not offhand, although I'm sure there are some. But why do you want to make the readers do the work?

Best wishes, Clive

Re: tense check

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:49:45 GMT

Thank you so much again.

Here,

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this? Yes,but does it have to be "will"? I thinK we can say, "I would be playing chess when he comes home," giving the element of conditional that the modal "would" imparts. On the second thought, it would go against the no. 1 conditional structure and that wouldn't be good, IMO. Then, again, what can I do to send a message of uncertainly by the use of a verb form, still keeping the word "will"?

Always have to be this?

When Joe comes home an hour later, he will (probably) - not would?? - be waiting for me at the bus stop with an umbrella so I won't get wet.
Will -not would??- Joe wait for me with an umbrella when I arrived at the bus stop an hour later?
What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me.
Will - not would?? - he be going out with Jane if she asks him out?

Always have to be a "definite" "will"? How can I impart a conditional element (if it is possible) with a touch of hesitation to a sentence that has "will"?

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called. Yes, I think this situation would create that doubt on the part of a reader, but can you think of a sitution or two where it is OK, although not preferable, not to make it a past perfect but leave it as a past and leave to the readers to figure out the sequence involved?

Re: tense check

Clive — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:59:32 GMT

Hi,
I had a little trouble understanding your questions in this post, I'm afraid.

It sometimes confused me whether I should use a past perfect or not in these situations>

Your correction:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

Copying the above again trying to point out parts that needed more explanations:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. 1) If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

1. My question: If we want to mention some action/event that will occur in the future, does the tense has to be "will," not conditional "would"? I now think it has to be "will", then how can we put an element of conditional into the clause parts?

When you say 'when Joe called', you are indicating that you are talking about the past, so I don't understand why you now want to talk about the future.

Anyway, do you mean you want to say something like this? If Joe calls, I will be in the chic district of Seoul.

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this?

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called.

If I had gone shopping when Joe called this sounds like a scenario in which you went shopping before he called.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: if

Grammar Geek — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:08:25 GMT

No, I don't see how it could be.

It would be easier to learn to fly an airplane than it would be if I did not know how to drive a car. It's a crazy conditional to try to parse, but it's definitely a conditional, needing "if" and not "whether."

Re: tense check

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:51:57 GMT

Thank you.

It sometimes confused me whether I should use a past perfect or not in these situations>

Your correction:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

Copying the above again trying to point out parts that needed more explanations:

I am sitting at a corner table in a restaurant. It is raining, and I am wondering what might have happened if I had done this or that or hadn't done this or that. 1) If I had gone shopping when Joe called, I would be ( I assume you mean right now, although I'm not sure) in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous latest-trend clothes.

1. My question: If we want to mention some action/event that will occur in the future, does the tense has to be "will," not conditional "would"? I now think it has to be "will", then how can we put an element of conditional into the clause parts?

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think.

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.