Search results for 'tag:Conversations tag:Nominative' matching tags 'Conversations' and 'Nominative'

Re: predicate nominative?

Avangi — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:31:29 GMT

I would say "She was I", but Kooyeen delights in pointing out that I'm in a 1% minority. It comes down to, what do you mean by "correct"? - and what do you mean by "allowed"? - and what "register" would you like to represent?

I like to think of the song lyric from the musical, The Man From La Mancha: "I am I, Don Quixote!" "Correct grammar should be confined to art, and has no place in conversation."

They say the king of Spain once spoke with a lisp, so the whole country was required to follow suit. Perhaps some day the whole world will say, "nucular."

Re: It's you who is/are answering me

CalifJim — Tue, 05 Sep 2006 02:22:19 GMT

You've made some very respectable guesses! (I'm convinced that there are no right answers to this question, by the way! )

The It's or It is or It was and the who are invariable in all versions of this formula.

The controversy revolves around two other factors.
Should the pronoun before who be in the nominative (I, you, he, she, we, they) or in the objective (me, you, him, her, us, them) case?
Should the verb after who agree only in number or in number and person with the antecedent pronoun? (This factor is important only in the cases of I am and You are.)
________________

Taking I am tired as the base sentence, the four cleft versions which are possible are:

It is I who am tired.     (Nominative, number, person)
It is I who is tired.        (Nominative, number)
It is me who am tired. (Objective, number, person)
It is me who is tired.     (Objective, number)
_____________

With You are tired, you singular. (Cases conflated.)

It is you who are tired.   (Nom/Obj, number, person)
It is you who is tired. (Nom/Obj, number)
_____________

With You are tired, you plural, only one version is possible. (Cases conflated and number and person conflated)

It is you who are tired.   (Nom/Obj, number/person)
_____________

Two versions are possible with each of the remaining pronouns. (Number and person conflated)

It is [he / she] who is tired. (Nominative, number)
It is [him / her] who is tired. (Objective, number)
It is [we / they] who are tired. (Nominative, number)
It is [us / them] who are tired. (Objective, number)
_____________

My understanding, right or wrong, is that the most formal and academic usage requires the It is I who am pattern, i.e., nominative case and both number and person agreement. Some people argue that I who is is fine. I don't think anyone argues in favor of me who am. My impression is that, informally in conversation, me who is might be used.
Following the idea that the maximum of agreement is needed for formal, academic use, ... you who are ... is the version to use, whether you is singular or plural. Likewise, ... [he / she / we / they] who [is / is / are / are]... are the more formal forms.
____________

Where I live, hardly anybody uses the forms shown above very much. We prefer to express the same meaning with the following paradigm:

I'm the one who's tired.
You're the one who's tired.
He's/She's the one who's tired.
We're the ones who are tired.
You're the ones who are tired.
They're the ones who are tired.

This topic is very controversial, and others are sure to have their own opinions on it.

CJ

Re: Myself usage

CalifJim — Thu, 21 Jul 2005 03:39:55 GMT

The so-called object pronouns are actually acceptable in the "predicate nominative" position according to many modern grammarians. Some say that it has been only the tendency of English grammarians throughout the centuries to create rules for English in imitation Latin grammar that has led to the idea that the object pronouns are wrong after the verb "to be". The advice more recently is to abandon grammatical explanations based on Latin. In conformance with this view perhaps we should begin to call the "object pronouns" "post-verbal pronouns"!

Note that in practical terms, the expression in everyday conversation is often "I'm the one who ...", where the choice of "I" or "me" doesn't even arise.

CJ

Re: Correct a sentence (subjunctive) 2

CalifJim — Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:54:53 GMT

There is ... no basis at all for including dative among the inflectional categories of the English noun.

And there is likewise no basis for including nominative or accusative (or objective) among the inflectional categories of the English noun.

English nouns have no inflections whatever except for plurality and the apostophe-s.

The Cambridge reference is interested only in English from the inside, as it were. But if you widen the inquiry to include many languages you see that other languages do have dative as an inflectional category. When a native speaker of one of those languages wants to know how to say his dative construction in English, it doesn't help much to say English doesn't have one. It's pretty much a conversation stopper! It's just arguing terminology, and doesn't solve the student's problem. Taking a less rigid approach often eases communication and helps the student to acquire English faster by concentrating on the practical matters of speaking and writing English, not on the fine points of grammatical terminology.

I think we all tend to forget, because grammar and linguistics can be so fascinating in themselves, that we are not teaching grammar and linguistics as such, but only as a means to an end. I say if the means gets in the way of the end, toss it out.

CJ

Re: Who/Whom

miriam — Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:13:56 GMT

Malory,
I don't think I can give you a response different from the one I posted to the WHO/WHOM/WHOSE thread... because that's what I know about these words! ~L~

"who" will be the subject of a clause (nominative form), while "whom" will be the object (objective form). This is as simple as I can put it, but honestly I don't believe it will help much.

In your post, "Who shall I say is caling?" is correct, but not "whom".
The clause in question is "who is calling?", and the answer will be the subject of the sentence: "John (is calling)."

In the second example, both forms are correct. The only form that is not correct is
"To who did you talk at the...?"

But remember that "whom" is rather formal and it isn't used in actual speech often.
It will be used in conversation, however (instead of 'who'), if it follows a preposition:
"The man to whom (not 'to who') I sent the letter hasn't written back yet."
or --> "The man who(m) I sent the letter to..."

"For whom (not 'for who') are you baking that cake?"
or --> "Who(m) are you baking that cafe for?"

I hope it helps. If it doesn't... you know, just ask again! ~makes a funny face~

Miriam

Re: WHO, WHOME, WHOSE????????

miriam — Tue, 18 May 2004 11:57:38 GMT

Who, whom and whose are relative pronouns. Who and whom are used for persons. They introduce relative clauses postmodifying the head of a noun phrase, and they are identical in form with interrogative pronouns but function differently.

Who: nominative form.
"The student who failed the test was very upset."
"I know the address of the girl who forgot her keys on my desk."

Whom: objective form.
Whom is formal and used mainly in writing. In conversation it is usually replaced by who (unless it follows a preposition):
"Tom, who(m) I have always trusted, told me the truth about the incident."
"The beggar to whom I gave some bread last night is back."
or
"The beggar who(m) I gave some bread to last night is back."

Who(m) may be omitted as objects in a relative clause:
"Tom is a man [whom] I have always trusted."
"The beggar [whom] I gave some bread to last night is back."

Whose: possessive form.
"That is the teacher whose students are bright."
"The new book, whose aim is to introduce you to the world of linguistics, is now available at the library."

Here are a few examples of interrogative pronouns:
"Who was at the party last night?"
"To whom did you lend my books?" / "Who(m) did you lend my books to?"
"Who(m) will you invite to your birthday party?"
"Whose notebook is this?" / "Whose is this notebook?"

If you can understand this, you could try to complete the sentences you posted. Give it a try!

Miriam