Search results for 'tag:Dialects tag:Grammar' matching tags 'Dialects' and 'Grammar'

lINGUISTICS as a conversation

noel gomez — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:39:42 GMT

Good day! Hi there! i just would like to know if Lingustics can be used as a tool for everyday's conversations, public speaking and many more; how does it benefit us and what are its effects to us. Thankyou. I just would like to sahre something i've read about linguistics - its history and unique characteristics. Correct me if i'm wrong. The article goes like this:

Wikipedia

Main article: Arabic grammar

Due to the rapid expansion of Islam in the 8th century, many people learned Arabic as a lingua franca. For this reason, the earliest grammatical treatises on Arabic are often written by non-native speakers.

The earliest grammarian who is known to us is Ê¿Abd AllÄh ibn AbÄ« Isá¸¥Äq al-á¸¤aá¸ramÄ« (d. 735-736 AD, 117 AH). The efforts of three generations of grammarians culminated in the book of the Persian linguist SibÄwayhi (c. 760-793).

Sibawayh made a detailed and professional description of Arabic in 760 in his monumental work, Al-kitab fi al-nahw (Ø§ÙÙØªØ§Ø¨ ÙÙ Ø§ÙÙØÙ, The Book on Grammar), bringing many linguistic aspects of language to light. In his book he distinguished phonetics from phonology.

Traditionally, the Arabic grammatical sciences are divided into five branches:

al-luÄ¡ah (lexicon) concerned with collecting and explaining vocabulary

at-taá¹£rÄ«f (morphology) determining the form of the individual words

an-naá¸¥w (syntax) primarily concerned with inflection (irÄb) which had already been lost in dialects.

al-iÅ¡tiqÄq (derivation) examining the origin of the words

al-balÄÄ¡ah (rhetoric) which elucidates construct quality

Thanks!

Re: if you were

Kooyeen — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 20:35:05 GMT

Grammar Geek
Although I'd say "It was him" more readily than "It was he" as a stand-alone sentence, once you put the "who suggeseted it" part on, I go back to the nominative

Then I don't know. There might be regional and dialectal differences. I'm sure the object pronoun is often used in those sentences, but if it doesn't sound good to you, then its usage is maybe not as widespread as I thought (or at least not in all dialects).

N2G

I like him (not he)

This topic is getting very interesting and at the same time worrying (what I've learned could be wrong!)

Yes! If you go to Jamaica, you'll find out you should say Me like him! Although "I like him" should be ok in high or middle registers.

Re: Legitimising dialect discrimination

Jon Salt — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:38:56 GMT

I think the problem is that people conflate accent and dialect. Accent varies from region to region when people use standard English. Vocabulary and grammar vary very little, and guessing nationality online can be tricky. If someone with an average educational background cannot use the vocabulary and grammar of standard English (as well as their own dialect, perhaps) then they are probably not a very capable person, and wouldn't be ideal for a white collar job. The older they are, the truer that is.

Re: Which language is most difficult language for people to learn?

Kooyeen — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:03:07 GMT

Just some quick comments:

1) It is obvious you can't tell which language is the most difficult to learn, because it's a subjective thing. "Difficult" means you are not able to do it well, but someone else might have no problems. Playing the guitar might be difficult for those who never learned how to use one, but it's pretty easy and enjoyable for many others. So I think I wouldn't have problems with Spanish grammar, since I'm Italian, but I doubt I would find Chinese ideograms quite easy.

2) Every language has some aspects you would find difficult, and others you would not find so difficult after all. All this is still very subjective. Some aspects you might want to consider are grammar, pronunciation, writing, speech registers, cultural aspects, regional aspects, etc.

3) The more a language it taught, the simpler it is to find what you need (more material = a better perspective and understanding). So English and Spanish, no matter how difficult and who finds them difficult, have a huge advantage: they are taught a lot. On the net you'll find an avalanche of websites to learn them, for free. Lots of teachers, lots of courses, lots of material. But now try to learn Finnish for example... how many forums to learn Finnish for free from volunteers are there online? As many as those for ESL? Hmm, no way. So less material --> higher probability of confusion and slower improvement.

4) What do you mean by learning a language? Learning the basic words? The basic grammar? Advanced vocabulary? Good style too? Perfect pronunciation? Learning about the major dialects too? And about the cultural aspects?
So the point is, at what level are you going to use a language you are learning? Maybe it's simple to learn how to say the most basic things ("hello, how are you?") in every language, but how about talking about eye surgery like a professor would? Attending a history lecture and understanding basically everything? You need "mastery" for that, and it's probably extremely hard to achieve for every language, no matter how subjective the difficulty might be.

Just my thoughts

Re: gone were/was

Kooyeen — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:15:39 GMT

New2grammar
can't believe what's on the Internet!

Do you want some more examples? I can give you a lot! You won't believe it! Yeah, the net is a mess.

As Jim said, in some languages hair is plural (mine too, and that's why I tend to make that mistake and use the plural). But on the other hand, optilang showed you how a certain "strange" expression can be normal in some dialects. Interesting, eh?

Re: Medical English/mature teacher

Anonymous — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:40:02 GMT

Dear Loretta: Thank-you for your letter. It is always interesting to hear from someone with a similar background or interest. Let me answer some of your questions for you. I want to share with you what I have learned over the years in this business. I hope I can be blunt? 1) You asked: what is the value of these certifications if one is already fluent in english and has taught professionals as part of their professional career? I teach adults at work all the time. My response: This is a common question for people who want to teach at any an all levels of ESL. a) Simply being fluent in a language doesnât make you good at it. Think of all the regional dialects and inner city dialects of English just in the USA alone. Surely to goodness you can see this? This question (and I know from experience) is perceived as incredibly rude and un-knowing by those people who have spent the time, effort and dedication learning how to teach language. b) I am on faculty teaching nursing in a university program, full time. There is a great deal of difference in teaching in a program and curriculum (particularly a program that moves in a lengthy step wise progression) than there is in teaching patient groups and communities in short programs. I have done both of these (because I am a nurse) and am able to compare and contrast the two. c) This statement could be perceived as diminishing the importance of teaching programs everywhere. It suggests that just because a nurse has experience âteaching adults at work all the timeâ that he/she might just as well apply for a teaching job in general education! Can you see where I am going with this? Ouch. It devalues the importance of undergraduate, graduate and PhDs/MEds in education. What if the teachers were to say this about nursing? d) What is the value? Well, if you wish to teach in a school of any merit, you will need this type of credential, for the reasons I have just cited. If you donât mind teaching at âany old language schoolâ of questionable repute and wages, then the credential isnât necessary. Please donât let that discourage you. You can always, always find work without the TESL certification and this is a FANTASTIC WAY to see the world. FANTASTIC. It just depends on your personal plans. 2) You asked: if I have a web-based business for international students, do I still need TESL certification if I am not traveling abroad to teach? My response: no, you donât really ever NEED to have the TESL, as Iâve said. But having it will improve your credibility exponentially. Just in closing, Iâd like to share a bit about myself so that you will see I am speaking from experience. I am a native English speaker. I studied French in school. I started my young adult years teaching English at Berlitz School of Languages and this helped pay for part of my nursing education. In later years, I picked up the TESL Certificate because I wanted to travel and work teaching English. Then I picked up Spanish! Throughout all of this, I have been a career nurse & nursing instructor first and foremost. I have a post-graduate diploma in Adult Education and a Masters of Science in Administration (Health focus). In the next couple of months I will graduate with a Masters of Education in TESOL. I believe I have a very, very solid background in language studies, adult education and nursing combined. That is why I have been able to build up a reputation for English for Nurses and English for Medical Purposes worldwide. Loretta, you have a fabulous background in Nursing and I would really like to encourage you to pursue your idea to teach Medical English. Those of us who are dually trained (Nursing and ESL) are very, very rare. Itâs a challenging but rewarding niche market to get into! Yours very truly, Melodie Hull, RPN, MSC, BA, TESL, PID, MED (candidate) Nurse-Educator & Consultant Canada Ps: Yikes, just one more thing. If you wish to be seen as a credible English language teacher, you must, must use proper grammar and capitalize titles, names and proper nouns as appropriate, especially if you are posting on the web. (Just a friendly hint.) MH

Re: If I'm used only to Standard English, might I have trouble understanding dialects?

Mr Wordy — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:26:35 GMT

There are some differences in vocabulary and idiom across the British Isles, and you might encounter some regional words and expressions that you're not familiar with. But the core vocabulary and grammar are not hugely different, and you might find that a bigger problem is pronunciation. If you're only familiar with the sort of English spoken by middle class people from the south of England, and you go into a pub in a rough part of Glasgow, say, then you might not even realise that the people there are speaking English at all.

The native speakers I (as a native speaker myself) have most difficulty with are young urban working class people. In this case, vocabulary (lots of "yoof slang" I've never heard of) and pronunciation both cause problems. I might overhear, say, a group of youths chatting in a London suburb and only catch about 50% of it.

There's no need to try to speak regional dialects of British English yourself (unless you're particularly interested in doing so, of course). If you speak something approximating to "standard" British English then you should be able to make yourself understood anywhere in the British Isles.

Re: What makes English so difficult to learn?

Anonymous — Fri, 23 May 2008 22:29:13 GMT

I'm a native English (American) speaker, and I have heard that English is easy to learn at a basic level. However, becoming fluent or speaking like a native speaker is difficult because, frankly, the language makes little sense even to those of us for whom it's a first language. Luckily for anyone out there who thinks their English is not good, your meaning is usually understood even if your grammar is imperfect, and no one really cares. In fact, although I have do know proper grammar, in most informal situations I intentionally use a more relaxed, even sometimes incorrect, dialect because it sounds far too formal to speak so perfectly to one's friends.

Re: What is the most easy accent in USA

Bldudas — Sun, 18 May 2008 03:51:57 GMT

No, mine. :)

Just kidding.That is like saying what is the easiest language to learn. All languages are different. Different sounds, grammar, etc. All accents and dialects are different too. It depends on where or if you even want to go to the United States and how good you are at learning a language.

Re: Have went vs have gone

Marius Hancu — Tue, 13 May 2008 21:22:59 GMT

> Have the payments went out

This is some kind of a dialect in AmE these days. Of course, not educated speech. You can find that for the last 150 years or so, so it is native.

<>This is what Donna Richoux says about it in another forum:

--------

I'm not sure why you think this is *new*. For example, a search at
Google Books for "have went" during 1850-1900 shows examples, including
grammar books cautioning against it:

===

The Institutes of English Grammar: Methodically Arranged, with Forms for
By Goold Brown
Published 1857

NOTE I. -- The preterit should not be employed to form the
compound tenses, nor should the perfect participle be used for
the preterit. Thus: say, "To have gone," -- not, "To have
went;" and, "I did it,"-- not, "I done it."

===

A Practical Grammar: In which Words, Phrases, and Sentences are
Classified .By Stephen Watkins Clark
Published 1860

GRAMMATICAL FALLACIES

45. " Had I known the character of the lecture, I would not have went."

===

Mark Twain discusses it, among other features of Northern and Southern
US English, in "Life on the Mississippi":

...The unpolished [Southerners] often use 'went' for 'gone.' It is
nearly as bad as the Northern 'hadn't ought.' This reminds me that a
remark of a very peculiar nature was made here in my neighborhood (in
the North) a few days ago: 'He hadn't ought to have went.' How is that?
Isn't that a good deal of a triumph? One knows the orders combined in
this half-breed's architecture without inquiring: one parent Northern,
the other Southern.

--
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux

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