Search results for 'tag:Difference between tag:Relative pronouns' matching tags 'Difference between' and 'Relative pronouns'

Re: Is "There is the ..." an exceptional use?

jazzmaster — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:27:58 GMT

CalifJim

Probably not. There may be a better way to finesse this with a different wording.
Yes, but from the viewpoint of the authors and the teacher, this may be considered a harmless "white lie".
Out of curiosity, does the book actually use the words, "serious grammatical error"? Or is that your impressionistic paraphrase?

Thanks CJ

"Serious grammatical error" is my paraphrase. But when and if ESL students start to expressly state "this IS an exceptional usage", I suppose that means "these is a set rule on this and no one can break that in any shape or form".

"the simplification of the grammar at the beginning makes it much easier for them to navigate the language with confidence in the beginning stages" ... I fully concur with your view here. This indeed is the ideal way of teaching something to someone, I would say. However, the reality is that they will soon start feeding what a SVOC is, along with modifier/qualifier, the difference between a relative pronoun and adverb and all that good stuff to students who even cannot pronounce the word "English" correctly yet. I have an impression that they do present "grammatically acceptable" sentence structures, rock-solid rules and what not all at once. It is not a fun way to learn a foreign language. That is why some students grow not to like the subject after short while.

Let's say you are in a store with a hardcore grammatical ESL student, and you say:
*&@!#% !! I just realized I left my wallet home!!
... in stead of saying "It's all right, CJ, here, take $100. You can pay me back tomorrow.", (granting that he/she understood what you said), the ESL student will be too busy thinking "Why did he not say "I HAD left my wallet"? Because he is describing an event that happened obviously prior to the moment "he realized", it should be the past perfect tense, thus "I HAD left". It could be an exceptional use of the "realize ... that ...." structure but I am not sure. Or should I just point out his grammatical mistake?" ... this is the mentality of students who are being taught by those hardcore grammar books, and I am not exaggertating even a bit.

Thanks.

Re: The difference between 'who' and 'whom'

CalifJim — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:54:52 GMT

Anonymous
I donât like the boy to whom you are talking
I donât like the boy who you are talking to

They are both correct, right?

Yes. They are both correct.

Anonymous
I think "I don't like the boy who you are talking to" is incorrect.

Sorry. You think wrong. You can always use who instead of whom when you leave the preposition 'stranded' at the end. Use whom for very formal contexts.

It would be quite idiomatic to leave out the relative pronoun completely, thus avoiding the use of whom:

I don't like the boy you're talking to.

Re: The difference between 'who' and 'whom'

26TMNTJG2PG — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:01:29 GMT

I just joined this Forum a few days ago. I do not know what I going to tell you is still relevant.

I have come across an article "Who" or "Whom" (relative pronouns), careful perusal and digestion of which may be of great help.

Re: truncation possibly this but not that

Avangi — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:38:41 GMT

Hi Anon, I was intrigued by this issue, as I too could see no substantial difference between the examples.

I think it comes down to a simple misunderstanding. The Anon said, "The dilemma how to know what and how much to truncate, Mr.M."

When we say,"There is Superman, up in the air," there may be two stages of truncation:

"There is Superman, (1)~~who is~~ (2)~~flying / hovering~~ up in the air."

You added, "There is Superman, flying up in the air.

Mr. M. said, "Those are OK too-- but they're not necessarily truncated. If they were they could be: There is superman, hovering up in the air."

What is meant by "they're" and "they"?

Mr. M. goes on to compare Anon's original up in the air to I have a hole in my pocket, saying they're just phrases (no evidence they were once clauses and have been truncated.)

When you truncate "who is" (relative pronoun and linking verb) it's fairly obvious what you've truncated. It sounds to me like Mr. M. is saying that if flying had been truncated you would have no way of knowing the word had been "flying," and it could just as well have been "hovering."

I believe you're taking Mr. M.'s words to mean that Anon's "flying" addition is not a correct example of a word that might have been truncated, while "hovering" is.

So to answer your question, there is no grammatical difference between "flying" and "hovering."

Regards, - A.

Re: Noun clauses Vs adjective clauses

Hoa Thai — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:09:24 GMT

Anonymous wrote:

I'd really appreciate your reply to my first letter. But in the sentence: "The news that he won surprised us all." that he won- is the noun clause;according to one of the website on the Internet. In the sentence "The fact that the earth is round is obvious." that the earth is round'-is a noun clause, according to you and many other refferences. What is the difference between the two sentences? Please expound clearly. In addition, I've come across some more difficult sentences such "It's a time that wars should cease." -that wars should cease is a noun clause used as an apposition to the word"time"; is it correct?- According to the high school grammar book from India.

Hi Sothy Sin,

I blew it royally! You are right. The clause 'that he won' is appositive clause because it is the news. The same goes for 'that the earth is round', which is the fact. Both clauses refer to the noun they follow.

1. "The news that he won surprised us all" - What is the news? 'He won' is the news. Both 'the news' and 'that he won' refer to the same thing (i.e., equivalent).
2. "The fact that the earth is round is well known" - What is the fact? 'The earth is round' is the fact. Both 'the fact' and 'that the earth is round' refer to the same thing.

In regard to the sentence "The news which we received last month was unbelievable," What is the news? Not sure! But it was which we received. We received the news. We received which. The relative pronoun which and the news are equivalent; thus, "which we received last month" is an adjective clause.

Finally, let's take a look at "It's a time when wars should cease." What's a time? 'when wars should cease'. Both 'a time' and 'when wars should cease' are equivalent. Therefore, 'when wars should cease' is an appositive clause.

Re: Is it correct or not?

Philip — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:24:14 GMT

Darcy wrote:
5. Which is correct?Both are correct. (1) is more common.
(1) Today we're going to study 'relative pronouns'
(2) Today we'll study 'relative pronouns'.

6 Are they correct? (1) is awkward; both need a comma before 'and'.
(1) I'll make a list of relative pronouns and then we're looking at how to use them.
(2) I'll make a list of relative pronouns and then let's look at how to use them

7 What is the difference between them?
(1)I want you to write your introduction. (2)I want you to write out your introduction. Both are heard; the 'out' in (2) is not good.

8. Are they correct?
(1) Turn in your paper on Friday. (2) Present your paper on Friday.

Is "present" is used the same meaning as "turn in"? I turn in a paper to the teacher. I present a paper (read it) to the class.
If so, how can we know whether "present" means "turn in" or talking to students with his paper in class? Present also means talking to other students with his paper in class, doesn't it?

Thanks for reading long writing.

I hope this helps.

Welcome to EF!!

Is it correct or not?

Darcy — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:32:42 GMT

5. Which is correct?
(1) Today we're going to study 'relative pronouns'
(2) Today we'll study 'relative pronouns'.

6 Are they correct?
(1) I'll make a list of relative pronouns and then we're looking at how to use them.
(2) I'll make a list of relative pronouns and then let's look at how to use them

7 What is the difference between them?
(1)I want you to write your introduction. (2)I want you to write out your introduction.

8. Are they correct?
(1) Turn in your paper on Friday. (2) Present your paper on Friday.

Is "present" is used the same meaning as "turn in"?
If so, how can we know whether "present" means "turn in" or talking to students with his paper in class? Present also means talking to other students with his paper in class, doesn't it?

Thanks for reading long writing.

Re: The difference between "which" and "that"

Mister Micawber — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:11:40 GMT

This thread confuses several different uses of the two words in its discussions. In your case:

I know which is the better car-- the speaker knows but has not revealed the information.
I know that is the better car -- this 'that' is not a relative pronoun; it is a demonstrative pointing to the better car, so the information has been revealed. The same sentence can also be cast as: I know (that) that is the better car.

Re: What's the difference between "as" (relative pronoun) and "which" (RP)?

Teleostomi — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 06:34:25 GMT

Thanks Clive!

Thanks also for the correction, I was sloppy!
Unfortunately, for some reason I can't edit my post. I could edit my writing in other threads of mine. How strange!

Re: What's the difference between "as" (relative pronoun) and "which" (RP)?

Clive — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:49:16 GMT

Hi,

He was unpretentious in both manner and appearance, as befit someone worked well with children.

What exactly does "as" mean in this sentence? What's the difference with it and the sentence with "which" in its place?

He was unpretentious in both manner and appearance, as befitted someone who worked well with children. 'As' here means 'in the manner which' or 'to the extent that would be suitable for'. In other words, it relates to manner or degree.

He was unpretentious in both manner and appearance, which befitted someone who worked well with children. The simple 'which' does not introduce any idea of manner or degree in the way that 'as' does.

Best wishes, Clive