Search results for 'tag:Difference between tag:Stative verbs' matching tags 'Difference between' and 'Stative verbs'

Re: Present Perfect (americans)

Diamondrg — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:40:10 GMT

Hi, YSchneider. I am not a native speaker and this is indeed a tough grammar point for non-native speakers.

Here is an extract from CGEL*:

Did you lock the front door? [5]

in a domestic situation where it is known that the front door is locked at bedtime every night. In that case, [5] is more or less equivalent to Did you
lock the front door at bedtime? (Incidentally, in [5], "the" in "the front door" is another case of situational definiteness; cfS.Uff.)

--

The ATTITUDINAL PAST, used with verbs expressing volition or mental state, reflects the tentative attitude of the speaker, rather than past time.
In the following pairs, both the present and past tenses refer to a present state of mind, but the latter is somewhat more polite:

Do/Did you want to see me now?
I wonder/wondered if you could help us.

--

Where did you put my purse ? [ 1 ]
Where have you put my purse? [2]

The purpose of both of these questions may be to find the purse; but in [1] the speaker seems to ask the addressee to remember a past action; while in [2] the speaker apparently concentrates on the purse's present whereabouts. There are many such cases.

--

Leaving aside such virtual equivalences, we may now focus on the difference between the two constructions, contrasting the meanings of the simple past given in 4.14 with the following meanings of the simple present perfective:

(a) STATE LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT

That house has been empty for ages.
Have you known my sister for long?

(b) INDEFINITE EVENT(S) IN A PERIOD LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT

Have you (ever) been to Florence?
All our children have had measles.

(c) HABIT (ie recurrent event) IN A PERIOD LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT

Mr Terry has sung in this choir ever since he was a boy.
The province has suffered from disastrous floods throughout its history.

Of these meanings, (a) corresponds to the 'state past' use of the simple past, but differs from it in specifying that the state continues at least up to the present moment (cf: That house was empty for ages - but now it's been sold); (b) corresponds to the 'event past', but differs from it in that the past time in question is indefinite rather than definite (cf: Did you go to Florence (last summer) ?); (c) corresponds to the 'habitual past', but, as with (a), the period identified must continue up to the present.

Note In AmE there is a tendency to use the past tense in preference to the present perfective, especially for the indefinite past; eg: Did you ever go to Florence ? (c/4.13 Note lb], 4.22 Note [a ]).

--

Have you seen the Javanese Art Exhibition? [yet]
Did you see the Javanese Art Exhibition? [when it was here]

The first of these implies that the Exhibition is still open; the second that the Exhibition has finished. From this concern with a period still existing at the present time, it is only a short step to the second implication often associated with the present perfective, viz that the event is recent. The simple present perfective is often used to report a piece of news:

_., , > the news? The president has resigned.

Because of this connotation of recency, B's reply in the following exchange must be considered absurdly inappropriate:

A: Has the postman left any letters? B: Yes, he did six months ago.

Since postmen in general deliver letters daily, the implicit time zone in this case would be no longer than a day.

[Note] In AmE, the simple past is often preferred to the present perfective for the variants of the indefinite past discussed in this section. Compare [6 ], for example, with Did the children come home yet? <esp AmE). Other AmE examples are: I just came back; You told me already; and without an adverb: /*m tired -1 had a long day.

* A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (Quirk et al.]

Re: I've always wondered + past or present

Kooyeen — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 18:49:14 GMT

Oh my, this is so confusing. So this subject IS complicated, indeed.

Thanks a lot, I think what you said makes sense ---> consider the difference between repeated events (habits), individual events, and 'mere potentialities' expressed by stative verbs (know, be, can).

But I think the rule must be simpler... I mean, native speakers trust their instinct, I'd like to trust my istinct too, but I don't have one yet.
Ok, I've been thinking for quite a while, I think it's a mess. Hmm, maybe I've found a solution! (I keep on changing my mind, I'm thinking while I'm posting). Solution:

After "wonder" we usually backshift in reported speech, since it's a verb that is strongly related to a situation or point in time, like "know" and "think" (--> I wondered if you were...).
Now, after "I've always wondered" we usually backshift too, unless the sentence is ambiguous. And the sentence is ambiguous when the situation can change, the situation is not fixed. However, I'm still thinking, and I'm not sure anymore... But if this is true, then:

I've always wondered how many languages you speak/spoke. Do you know Chinese? <-- should be "spoke", because if you speak a language, you can usually speak it whenever you want, it's not time-dependent.
I've always wondered who is/was the member that keeps/kept sending spam. They keep sending me strange emails. <--- should be "is" and "keeps", because this is time-dependent. The member sends spam now, but they haven't always be sending it, and they won't sent spam forever.
I've always wondered who deletes/deleted the post here in EF <--- "deleted" because mods aren't always the same, and they haven't always be the same.
I've always wondered who will/would be the next president. <--- "would", the next president is not going to change, because we are just talking about an expectation.
I've always wondered how many memebers there are/were in this forum. <--- "are", because it's time-dependent, new memebers sign up every day.

If this doesn't work, I really don't know what to do... , or rather

Re: I've always wondered + past or present

CalifJim — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 04:05:31 GMT

OK. I think I've finally understood the game you're playing.
I'm the native informant (or whoever of us answers); you're the descriptive grammarian!
(By the way, the standard saying among you descriptive grammarians is: Never trust a native informant!)
Fun game, though.

- I've always wondered if penguins can fly. I don't know. I'd have said could fly.
- Interesting... so penguins can't fly. I've always wondered if penguins could fly. OK.

But if there isn't such a difference...

I've always wondered who deletes the posts here in Englishforums. <--- would you say this is not very good? Sounds perfect to me.
I've always wondered who deleted the posts here in Englishforums. Doesn't sound as good; sounds like a failed attempt to say wondered who used to delete the posts ...

I've always wondered if I can place some adverbs at the beginning of a sentence. <--- would you say this is not very good? I would say could place.
I've always wondered if I could place some adverbs at the beginning of a sentence. OK.
___________

I don't envy you the task of rationalizing this data into your forthcoming publication Descriptive Grammar of the English As She is Spoken. But if I might give you a hint (and no, I'm not sure this hint will take you anywhere very interesting, let alone profitable), consider the difference between repeated events (habits), individual events, and 'mere potentialities' expressed by stative verbs (know, be, can).

CJ

Re: "to ask" and "to be asking"

Mister Micawber — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 05:59:08 GMT

Thanks, John. Your question is not easy to answer definitively, but some comments:

1-- The text is informal, a replica of spoken English, so the grammar is loose.
2-- You'll notice that the writer uses both forms you mention ('To be asking them to go home' and 'to ask them after supper'), and these are set parallel in the same sentence-- so the difference between them here is slight and in the mind of the speaker there may be no difference in intent.
3-- Neither one precisely means 'keep asking', but I think that that is implied in the text-- the father is speaking of a repeated situation.
4-- Generally, when both forms are possible in a sentence, the progressive form (e.g. 'be asking') is intended to emphasize the ongoing activity-- the effect of this is usually increased enthusiasm, concern or courtesy over the simple verb form. This is most easily seen when we cast a usually stative verb into the progressive:

A: How's your Romantic Literature class?

B1: Oh, I really love it!
B2: Oh, I'm really loving it!

Re: could - the use of modals

CalifJim — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 19:11:37 GMT

Yes, there is a big difference - the difference between past and future.

If you say I wish I bought a new car, you are suggesting that you haven't bought the car even though you had an opportunity to do so (in the past). (This is also said I wish I had bought a new car with the same meaning.)

If you say I wish I could buy a new car, you are suggesting that you want to buy a car (in the future), but you are unable to do it. Maybe you don't have enough money to do it.

I think you may be confused because stative verbs like have don't work the same way with wish as the dynamic verbs (like buy) do.

I wish I had a car means I wish to have a car now, I regret not having a car now. In this case the past tense had indicates present time. The same effect of past tense serving as present doesn't work for verbs that indicate an event that occurs at a point in time.

CJ

Re: Tenses in since-clauses

CalifJim — Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:39:13 GMT

1 and 4 are correct. 2 and 3 are incorrect. Am I right?

I would say so, yes.

know is a stative verb, so ever since is going to mean during the entire time from when (I came to know him) until now.
meet is not a stative verb, so ever since is going to mean from the time when (I met him) until now.

It is the difference between the verb types that influences the choice of tense after ever since (or just since).

CJ

Re: Difference between bother doing and bother to do

Anonymous — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:04:34 GMT

Paco2004 wrote:
My tries were as below but I too feel both forms may be OK.

11. Don't bother to do the dishes. [negation]
        [google check] don't bother to do 16,600 / don't bother doing 24,900
12. He hasn't even bothered to write. [negation]
        [google check] hasn't bothered to write 528 / hasn't bothered writing 68
13. She walked out of the room without bothering to say goodbye.[style]
       [google check] bothering to say 9540 / bothering saying 414
16. Farmers will cease to be liable for tax. [stative verb]
       [google check] cease to be liable 706 / cease being liable 21
17. We must cease dumping waste into rivers and the sea. [dynamic verb]
       [google check] cease to dump 42 / cease dumping 435

paco

could you please tell me about the google check thingy? is it a software or something? how to check ' em like this?

thank you so much

Re: verbs with gerunds and infinitives

paco2004 — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:54:16 GMT

Hello Daxiaoaixad

Daxiaoaixad wrote:
Is there exist a slight difference between "continue to do" and "continue doing"? In the sense that "continue to do" indicates that you finished doing something, then continue to do something else. While "continue doing" indicates that you are doing something, then you are interrupted by something else, then go back to do the something again?

I've thought a bit over this question, but couldn't find good answers. However, I have a feeling some people should make a distinction between the two usages. As usual I did a survey using the pages of New York Times COM on Google. The purpose of survey was to know which one the NY Times people are using more often for what kind of the verb V2, "continued to V2" or "continued V2-ing". The results are as follows:
       "continued to fight" 117 "continued fighting" 139
       "continued to talk" 91 "continued talking" 63
       "continued to walk" 30 "continued walking" 60
       "continued to work" 825 "continued working" 214
       "continued to rise" 660 "continued rising" 27
       "continued to live in" 107   "continued living in" 0
       "continued to be" 13600 "continued being" 17
Although this survey is a very limited one, I'm inclined to conclude from it that the NY Times reporters have a tendency to avoid the use of "continue V2-ing" when the verb V2 is a stative verb. I reason this phenomenon as follows. "Continue" itself gives a notion of continuous to the V2. Therefore when the V2 verb is a stative verb, "continue V2-ing" would emphasize the continuity of the activity of V2 too much enough to sound unnatural.

paco

Re: Difference between bother doing and bother to do

paco2004 — Sun, 16 Oct 2005 18:35:27 GMT

My tries were as below but I too feel both forms may be OK.

11. Don't bother to do the dishes. [negation]
        [google check] don't bother to do 16,600 / don't bother doing 24,900
12. He hasn't even bothered to write. [negation]
        [google check] hasn't bothered to write 528 / hasn't bothered writing 68
13. She walked out of the room without bothering to say goodbye.[style]
       [google check] bothering to say 9540 / bothering saying 414
16. Farmers will cease to be liable for tax. [stative verb]
       [google check] cease to be liable 706 / cease being liable 21
17. We must cease dumping waste into rivers and the sea. [dynamic verb]
       [google check] cease to dump 42 / cease dumping 435

paco

Re: Difference between bother doing and bother to do

paco2004 — Sun, 16 Oct 2005 04:22:09 GMT

Hello Kalamajka

Welcome to this Forum.

The choice between "doing" and "to do" is really messy. Some verbs take only "doing" and some only "to do" and still some verbs can take both. Every English learner should be annoyed with this problem. But there seems no way other than learning them one by one.

In the case "bother", you can say both "bother doing" and "bother to do" and the meanings are the same.
(EX) Why do you bother learning/to learn English?

The verb "cease" also can take both "doing" and "to do".
(EX) I'll cease writing/to write the diary.
However if the "do" is a stative verb such as "exist", "live" or "love", you have to choose only "to do".
(EX) He ceased to exist last night.

paco