Search results for 'tag:Gerunds tag:Abstract nouns' matching tags 'Gerunds' and 'Abstract nouns'

Re: about the "gerund"

Grammar Geek — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:40:51 GMT

Well, here's one approach.

Think of the roles that nouns play in a sentence.

As a subject: Chocolate is great. Dogs are great.

As an object: I like dogs. I like chocolate.

Sometimes what you like, or what you want to say is great isn't a normal noun, one that you can touch, like chocolate or dogs. It's not even an abstract noun like "happiness." It's a verb-thing. It relates to the activity of doing what verb. That's when you need a gerund.

A geurnd is a "verb-thing" that can serve in a sentence where you need a noun.

Swimming is fun. Having you over for dinner would be our pleasure. I don't like riding the bus.

Re: some questions

Clive — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:47:39 GMT

Hi,

Here some extracts from conversation (about baseball) I'd like you to help me understand:

"...And now that Roger Clemens, who is to pitching in this era what Bonds has been to hitting." - could you explain in terms of grammar why gerund is used? For the same reason that we say 'Pitching is an important part of baseball'. The gerund form is like the abstract noun to describe the activity.

"...The report gives Barry Bonds more esteemed company as a cheat, doesn't it?" - does it means that the report rates Barry Bond above cheater? No. It means Bonds was the only known cheater but now the report has named others, so Bonds has company,

And the last one - who are/were Bonnie and Clyde? Famous US criminals, now dead. There is a famous Hollwood movie about them, with the same title.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: through/by paying attention in class

CalifJim — Tue, 01 Jan 2008 07:24:04 GMT

by is the better choice, in my opinion. through, though synonymous, is not used very often in this precise role. Both are correct, however.

It seems to me that by is more used in association with actions (such as indicated with gerunds like "paying attention"). On the other hand, through is more used in association with nouns, possibly abstract nouns, that are less indicative of action. Also, to my ear, the relationship set up by through is less direct than the relationship suggested by by.

I learned a lot [?through / by] studying hard.
I learned about the lecture [through / *by] a friend.
Karen got the job [?through / by] reading the want-ads.
Karen got the job [through / *by] a secretarial agency.
Helen got the job [through / by] deceit.
Helen got the job [?through / by] lying.
You can get a promotion [?through / by] working hard.
You can get a promotion [through / ?by] hard work.

CJ

Re: gerund or verbal noun

CalifJim — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:24:25 GMT

Â«All examples with the ---ing of --- are called gerunds there.Â»

I must have overlooked something, but I clearly see that all such examples are listed under the caption: "The VERBAL ABSTRACT NOUNS". Correct me if I am wrong.

I'm sorry to say that you are mistaken about this. Section 11 (3) has the verbal (abstract) nouns that end in -ing, such as saying, foreboding, meaning, drawing, blessing, ..., whereas Section 273 describes the gerunds and presents the the ...-ing of ... examples.

[Section 11 (3) is quoted in one of my previous posts in this thread. I believe 273 is quoted elsewhere.]

CJ

Re: gerund or verbal noun

Ant_222 — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 23:24:44 GMT

Schetin
«A grammar is only a view of language. No matter what terminology, if it helps avoid mistakes and explain phenomena, then the grammar is good.»

Very true. Also I'd say this: Rules describe the language, not define it. Rules follow from the language just like physical laws reflect reality, not vice versa.

«I think that trying to simplify understanding modern grammar makes it more ambiguous, hence even more complex.»

Who is simplifying?

CJ:

«All examples with the ---ing of --- are called gerunds there.»

I must have overlooked something, but I clearly see that all such examples are listed under the caption: "The VERBAL ABSTRACT NOUNS". Correct me if I am wrong.

1. That's a clever saying is one thing
2. My saying it doesn't make it so

Your comment:
«In the first use of saying, there is nothing at all verb-like about saying except that it is derived from the verb say; not so in the second use, where the action of saying, hence something verb-like, is involved.»

Also in #2 "saying" governs "it", which the old book declares a feature of the gerund, not the verbal noun.

Re: gerund or verbal noun

CalifJim — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:25:23 GMT

All of your examples are gerunds if we stick to modern terminology.

Forget about the terminology verbal noun. It's total garbage!

It has many different definitions, depending on the author and when the grammar book was written.
_____________

The modern definition is given at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbal_noun

A verbal noun is a noun formed directly as an inflexion of a verb or a verb stem, sharing at least in part its constructions. This term is applied especially to gerunds, and sometimes also to [bare] infinitives and supines [i.e., full infinitives].

That is, there are three types of verbal noun: gerunds, bare infinitives, and full infinitives.

So anything that is a gerund is also a verbal noun, because a gerund is one of the types of verbal nouns.
____________

The modern definition is echoed at

http://www.ielanguages.com/english.html

Gerunds: [Like participles,] Gerunds are also formed by adding -ing to the verb, but they function as a verbal noun [as opposed to the participle, which is a verbal adjective] and are normally preceded by articles or demonstratives. The singing was excellent.
___________

A completely different definition is found here:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O29-VERBALNOUN.html

VERBAL NOUN. A category of noncountable abstract noun derived from a verb, in English by adding the suffix -ing. Like the verb from which it derives, it refers to an action or state: writing in The writing has taken too long; hearing in His hearing is defective. Verbal nouns are frequently combined with the preposition of and a noun phrase that corresponds to the subject or object in a clause: The grumbling of his neighbours met with no response (compare His neighbours grumbled); His acting of Hamlet won our admiration (compare He acted Hamlet). Verbal nouns contrast with deverbal nouns, that is, other kinds of nouns derived from verbs, such as attempt, destruction, and including nouns ending in -ing that do not have verbal force: building in The building was empty. They also contrast with the gerund, which also ends in -ing, but is syntactically a verb.

Note the last (underlined) sentence. By this definition only usages like The neighbors were acting like fools are considered gerunds -- not all the other examples that preceded -- examples that we would all agree are gerunds in current terminology.
_____________

The next definition is more than 100 years old, and I've seen it quoted on this site. Note that it is classified (see the URL) under "Classic Literature". It is useful only as a historic document -- not as a guide to modern English and modern syntactic analysis.

http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/wmbaskervill/bl-wmbaskervill-grammar-parts-nouns.htm

An English Grammar

1896

by W. M. Baskervill & J. W. Sewell

273. It [the gerund] differs from the participle in being always used as a noun: it never belongs to or limits a noun.

It differs from the verbal noun in having the property of governing a noun (which the verbal noun has not) and of expressing action (the verbal noun merely names an action, Sec. II).

[Sec. II. is actually Sec. 11, where nouns are discussed. The discussion of verbal nouns is within a category called Abstract Nouns, so in Section 11 verbal nouns are called by their more specific name: Verbal Abstract Nouns.]

II. The VERBAL ABSTRACT NOUNS Originate in verbs, as their name implies. They may beâ

(1) Of the same form as the simple verb. The verb, by altering its function, is used as a noun; as in the expressions, "a long run" "a bold move," "a brisk walk "
[These are called deverbal nouns in modern terminology -- or 'zero-related nominals' or just 'nouns'.]

(2) Derived from verbs by changing the ending or adding a suffix: motion from move, speech from speak, theft from thieve, action from act, service from serve.
[These,too, are called deverbal nouns nowadays -- or just 'nouns'.]

(3) Derived from verbs by adding -ing to the simple verb. It must be remembered that these words are free from any verbal function They cannot govern a word, and they cannot express action, but are merely names of actions. They are only the husks of verbs, and are to be rigidly distinguished from gerunds (Secs. 272, 273). [These are nouns that end in -ing. They have acquired fixed meanings as nouns, referring to something more concrete than the action of the underlying verb.]

To avoid difficulty, study carefully these examples:

The best thoughts and sayings of the Greeks; the moon caused fearful forebodings; in the beginning of his life; he spread his blessings over the land; the great Puritan awakening; our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting; a wedding or a festival; the rude drawings of the book; masterpieces of the Socratic reasoning; the teachings of the High Spirit; those opinions and feelings; there is time for such reasonings; the well-being of her subjects; her longing for their favor; feelings which their original meaning will by no means justify; the main bearings of this matter.
______________

It is debatable whether anything whatsoever is to be gained in the study of modern English by resurrecting these older definitions.

CJ

Part of Speech identification

Anonymous — Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:16:08 GMT

Hello, this is my first post here, I like to know these words
kilometer
centimeter

Are those words noun if they are standing alone ? if it's, what kind of noun it's, proper noun or abstract noun or etc ?

After that, I want to indentify the part of speech of the following setence by using the stanfard parser at http://nlp.stanford.edu:8080/parser/index.jsp
if you input,
convert kilometer to centimeter
it gives convert/VB kilometer/NN to/TO centimeter/VB

if you input,
convert 2 kilometers to centimeter
it gives convert/VB 2/CD kilometers/NNS to/TO centimeter/NN

You can refer to the tagset below, my question is, is the first input setence correct ? if it's correct the part of speech given by the program seems to be incorrect because
the centimeter should be noun instead of Verb, or am I wrong ? If you add the "2" as the second input the program gives the correct part of speech tagging,
it it because my first input grammar is incorrect ? Thank you.

Reference

1. CC  Coordinating conjunction  25.TO  to 
2. CD  Cardinal number           26.UH  Interjection 
3. DT  Determiner                27.VB  Verb, base form 
4. EX  Existential there   28.VBD Verb, past tense 
5. FW  Foreign word              29.VBG Verb, gerund/present participle 
6. IN  Preposition/subord.   30.VBN Verb, past participle 
218z     conjunction 
7. JJ  Adjective                 31.VBP Verb, non-3rd ps. sing. present 
8. JJR Adjective, comparative    32.VBZ Verb, 3rd ps. sing. present 
9. JJS Adjective, superlative    33.WDT wh-determiner 
10.LS  List item marker          34.WP  wh-pronoun 
11.MD  Modal                     35.WP  Possessive wh-pronoun 
12.NN  Noun, singular or mass    36.WRB wh-adverb 
13.NNS Noun, plural              37. #  Pound sign 
14.NNP Proper noun, singular     38. $  Dollar sign 
15.NNPS Proper noun, plural      39. .  Sentence-final punctuation 
16.PDT Predeterminer             40. ,  Comma 
17.POS Possessive ending         41. :  Colon, semi-colon 
18.PRP Personal pronoun          42. (  Left bracket character 
19.PP  Possessive pronoun        43. )  Right bracket character 
20.RB  Adverb                    44. "  Straight double quote 
21.RBR Adverb, comparative       45. `  Left open single quote 
22.RBS Adverb, superlative       46. "  Left open double quote 
23.RP  Particle                  47. '  Right close single quote 
24.SYM Symbol  48. "  Right close double quote

Re: learning and wisdom

Taka — Tue, 22 May 2007 11:46:52 GMT

I had these exchanges before:

Taka wrote:

My dictionary says:

''Gerund AND gerund' , 'infinitive AND infinitive' and 'abstract noun AND abstract noun' are generally treated as singular when they are used as the compound subject of a sentence.

Do you think this explanation is wrong?

Grammar Geek wrote:
I can see it in the abstract nouns: Happiness and prosperity is awaiting you... But I can't see it in the gerunds. Let's see if someone else has another view.

http://www.englishforums.com/English/TheSubject/2/dlgzb/Post.htm

Re: SOS please.....

Pioussoul — Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:55:43 GMT

Anonymous wrote:

wussup everybody... i've got a Grammar exam at 14.00.. I really have no clue..

In Adverbial Clauses, we have a part called alternate structure, it's kinda changin' the subordinate clause into a new structure.

This new structure is either : coordinate clause, prepositional phrase, participal phrase, or an absolute construction.

Prepositional phrases differ, we have prepositional phrase with gerund, prepositional phrase with abstract noun.

This is one of the exemples provided:

Adverbial Clause of Time:

Alternate structure:

After we finished breakfast, we went for a walk.

1/Coordinate clause: We finished breakfast;(=and) then we went for a walk.

2/Prepositional phrase with gerund: After finishing breakfast(After we had finished breakfast), we went for a walk.

3/Participal phrase: Having finished breakfast(=After we had finished breakfast), we went for a walk.

4/Absolute construction: Breakfast finished(=After breakfast had been finished by us), we went for a walk.

My Qs are:

In the participal phrase: Having finshed breakfast, why isn't it simply breakfast finished? We have we added Having?

If after was not at the same time a subordinate conj and a preposition, how could we find the appropriate preposition?

a/How is this absolute construction made?

b/What can we use to refer to time, place,concession, result, cause, and purpose?

c/"Then" used in the coordinate clause is not among the coordinate conjenctions we learnt (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so), how come?

Thank you very much,, and wish me all hard luck...

NB. English is my third language, I'm studyin' it at the uni, 2nd year, I can sort myself out when speaking but writing and Grammar ...

Like what Marius has mentioned, you posted too many questions at a time, and this is hard for us to help you.

Post one question per thread so that we could help you.

Alternate structures of clauses.

Veevanna — Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:12:21 GMT

Hello everybody.

In Grammar, adverbial clauses have alternate structures, this means changing the structure of the clause into a new one, it can be either: coordinate clause, prepositional phrase with gerund or with abstract noun, participal phrase or an absolute constraction.

We have the following exemple:

After we finished breakfast, we went for a walk.

Coordinate Clause: We finished breakfast; then we went for a walk.

Prepositional phrase with Gerund: After finishing breakfast, we went for a walk.

Participal Phrase: Having finished breakfast, we went for a walk.

Absolute Construction: Breakfast finished, we went for a walk.

My Qs are:

a/"Then" is not among the coordinate conj. we studied (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so). Why is it used in the Coordinate clause?

b/ What are the appropriate prepositions we can use to refer to time, place, concession, purpose, reason and result?

Thank you!