http://www.englishforums.com/search/pro.htm?q=tag%3aGerunds+tag%3aArticlesSearch results for 'tag:Gerunds tag:Articles' matching tags 'Gerunds' and 'Articles'en-USXMOD (Build: 3715.30106)http://www.englishforums.com/English/CouldCorrectSentences/mgrqw/post.htm#1032175Sat, 23 Jan 2010 23:30:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1032175james doMy english is not good, but I have some ideas. 1-Advertising warn governments to act more powerfully for keeping society in a healthy condition with devoting financial helps, educating people, enhancing the culture of health care in vilages and so on. 2- I think you should write "some diseases ..., so how important to protect our health is ! " 3- it is easier for us to keep our safe than to be cured after becoming ill. Also, curing takes more time and spends more money. (you should write "Also, curing spends more time and money.") 6- government has the main role of providing essential facilities in health institutions to protect people from diseases or even (to) cure them after...http://www.englishforums.com/English/VerbIng/mcnjd/post.htm#1015997Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:55:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:1015997avangiWhen the "ing" word is a gerund (noun), it's usually a subject, and its object would have an article in front of it: "feeding the animals." When it's only a present participle acting as an adjective, there's no article following it: "The blowing sand has eroded the face of the cliff." "Feeding animals should not be disturbed." I think your examples show that you understand how it works - except we'd say, "to operate the / a system." "The automatic controller is operating the system right now." Edit. Wow! I should have added that the present participle is also part of the present continuous tense, as in the example I just gave. As a gerund, it would...http://www.englishforums.com/English/SecretsTo/lgzxm/post.htm#950441Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:14:54 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:950441cool breezeBoth titles are correct. 1. The title suggests that the story that follows gives seven secrets which are known to insiders only and can be used to attract hot girls. To attract is an infinitive and denotes purpose. The infinitive is often used to refer to future action in headlines as well. I remember this one from the early seventies: Nixon to visit China. The US president was planning a trip to China. The future tense (Nixon will visit China) is avoided in headlines. If it were used, English would be too easy! 2. In this headline to is a preposition and thus attracting is a gerund because an infintive cannot follow a preposition in English. The structure is similar to I'm interested in hear ing about it. Or: He talked about...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundsInfinativesPlease/lzdbv/post.htm#944238Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:41:00 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:944238ivanhrI think your answers are correct. I read an article on gerunds saying that with "would" the verbs prefer, like, hate are usually followed by the to-infinitive. Howoever your sentences I would prefer to eat .... and I intend to finish...don't seem to have the same subject for the first and the second verb. Therefore I would think they are gerundshttp://www.englishforums.com/English/PartsOfSpeech/kdbjn/post.htm#850423Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:53:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:850423cliveHi, I have difficulty in understanding verb usage(two verbs given and go in same sentence) in below sentence and also please tell me the parts of speech in the sentence. You need articles as shown. Effective and substantial critiques given to a person can go a long way in changing the life of the person in a postive way. 'Given is a past participle usesd as an adjective to describe 'critiques'. The full adjectival phrase is 'given to a person'. The adjectives 'effective and substantial' also describe 'critiques'. The noun 'critiques' is the subject of the sentence. The verb is 'can go'. 'Can' is a modal auxiliary used withe base verb...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundAsCountable/jmjzp/post.htmFri, 10 Jul 2009 02:30:37 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:813346anonymousHi. I think when you put the an indefinite article "a" or "an" in front of a gerund, I think you are making it countable. eg, a tightening of requirements Do you think we could we apply this to almost all gerunds (like "tightening" - I think this is a gerund) or some gerund phrases like "tightening of money"? On second thoghts, I think I have never seen the phrase "a writing of a novel" or "a playing of a rough sport." As to the latter phrase, I may have -- I don't know. All confused. Help.http://www.englishforums.com/English/UseGerundsVersusInfinitive-Verbal/jkwqc/post.htm#803421Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:11:06 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:803421proto'Can one say: I went to shop today?' You can say this when you want to say that the place you went to was a shop (noun). Besides in this sentence an article is needed. 'I went shopping today. ( How is 'shopping' used in this sentence?)' In this sentence shopping is a verb and this is how we say what were we doing in the shop :)http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhatsNominativePhrase/jrzwg/post.htm#753291Thu, 28 May 2009 23:24:15 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:753291avangi"Nominative" is the adjectival form of "noun." It doesn't get used very much on this site. I think I've seen MrP use it one time. It's always something of a tossup as to whether a "noun phrase" is so-called because it functions as a noun or because it begins with a noun. It's often both. So do we say " gerund phrase" or " gerundive phrase"? The first is a noun and the second is an adjective. Participal phrase / participial phrase Preposition phrase / prepositional phrase Adverb phrase / adverbial phrase Etc. When you see " nominal / nominative phrase," substitute "noun phrase." After that,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TwoQuestionsOnArticle/wqlxd/post.htmWed, 27 May 2009 05:14:51 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:750196anonymousHi. 1. I think I have asked a similar question as part of a thread but since I could not find it, I have decided to start a new thread. Let us try to adjectives like "vibrant" in front of the names of countries, cities and streets. Let also pretend vibrant the "XXX" below represents any of those names of countries, cities, or streets. For this I think we can either put the definite article "the" or indefinite article "a" depending on whether weant to be specific about it or make the name of one of the three of a type of it. (Even after having written it, I don't know what I am saying. Can you help?) vibrant XXX or a vibrant XXX If I change the adjective to the word...http://www.englishforums.com/English/IndefiniteArticleQuotedContent/wmndc/post.htm#733812Sun, 17 May 2009 04:10:42 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:733812anonymousHi. Thank you again. I did a search on the phrases "a read-through" and "a reading-through" on the Google Book Search and have gotten the numbers (I think they represent the number of sources that have such a phrase) 654 and 614 respectively. I am aware of a gerund being susceptible to being accompanied by the article if the intent is to make an instance of it, as previously used "a mixing," but I don't know what to make of the construct "a read-through." How should a person check if this kind of phrasal construction is correct or learn about using it sentences?http://www.englishforums.com/English/IndefiniteArticleQuotedContent/wmndc/post.htm#731296Fri, 15 May 2009 14:14:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:731296mr wordyI think when you put a word or phrase in quotes, it makes people notice the word or phrase in a special way (if I am not mistaken). Yes, amongst their other uses, quotes can indicate that a word or phrase is used with a different meaning to the usual one, or is used ironically (with the opposite meaning). An indefinite article before a quoted word or phrase has no special significance. If the usual rules of grammar require it then it's used, otherwise it isn't, just as if the word was not quoted. Then, when you put the indefinite article "a" in front of it, I think what you are doing is making it an instance of it as in "a mixing," which could be taken as an instance of mixing. I think...http://www.englishforums.com/English/IndefiniteArticleQuotedContent/wmndc/post.htm#731263Fri, 15 May 2009 14:03:43 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:731263cliveHi, I think when you put a word or phrase in quotes, it makes people notice the word or phrase in a special way (if I am not mistaken). Yes. eg In that village's dialect, a table is called a 'chair'. Then, when you put the indefinite article "a" in front of it, I think what you are doing is making it an instance of it as in "a mixing," which could be taken as an instance of mixing. I think the word "mixing" is a gerund. Yes, it's a gerund. When you use a gerund, in simple and general terms you are making a noun from a verb. eg Mary dances. Mary likes dancing. There is no need to use quotes here, because neither of the words is being used in a special way. Could...http://www.englishforums.com/English/IndefiniteArticleQuotedContent/wmndc/post.htmFri, 15 May 2009 09:35:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:730934anonymousHi. I think when you put a word or phrase in quotes, it makes people notice the word or phrase in a special way (if I am not mistaken). Then, when you put the indefinite article "a" in front of it, I think what you are doing is making it an instance of it as in "a mixing," which could be taken as an instance of mixing. I think the word "mixing" is a gerund. Could we go far as writing "a mixing various chopped vegetables in a small bowl is a task a very young boy might very well detest."? Going back to the original question, can you help me make sense of this? What we will do is a "read-through" of the text dialogues.http://www.englishforums.com/English/HowTeachStudentsIdentifyConjugated-Verbs/wgmrz/post.htmWed, 22 Apr 2009 16:27:11 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:701119swordangelHello,I am trying to teach my 3 Chinese students to perform grammatical analysis on English sentences (or what some people call "diagramming a sentence"). I am nothing close to a qualified English teacher; I only come from a heavily French Canadian education background. Back in high school, I was taught to perform grammatical analysis for the French language, but never for the English language. Of course, since both languages originate from Western Europe, I was curious whether I could apply the same analysis on English sentences as I would on French sentences, so a few years ago I asked my English teacher in pre- university college about it. She said that, indeed, the structure of English sentences is similar enough to that...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TheIngOf/wvxlk/post.htmSun, 29 Mar 2009 03:56:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:692063snappyI remember that the definite article is required before the gerund+of form. Example: This is a major factor contributing to the successful running of companies. Is it possible (or more common) to leave out the definite article in the above case?http://www.englishforums.com/English/HelplessTensesTensesCheck/wvzqd/post.htm#689632Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:21:44 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:689632avangiI'm really no authority on this, but I'll give it a try, in case no one else shows. << The objective of this thesis was a thorough analysis >> This seems strange to me, since the thesis is eternal, so to speak. I could understand saying, "My objective in writing this thesis was to make a thorough analysis etc." since your objective was in the past, while the thesis' objective is in the present. Anyway, I'd use present, but I guess "has been" would keep you out of trouble. << Corpus of our research contains >> Doesn't "corpus" want an article? << According to the available literature we wrote theoretical part of this thesis dealing with sentences and the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Coming/wvvrp/post.htm#688999Fri, 20 Mar 2009 15:57:13 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:688999alpheccastarsEunjinny: In deciding whether to use the infinitive or gerund following another verb, please read this helpful article.http://www.englishforums.com/English/IdentifyingPartSentence/hqlkn/post.htm#667296Mon, 09 Feb 2009 04:16:49 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:667296eddie88Hi; I agree that this phrase modifies 'conflicts.' However, I was told, when I previously posted this question, that it was, in fact, a gerund. If it is a gerund, then I suppose it is an appositive of conflict, but this doesn't seem right, does it. So, I'd agree that it is a particple modifying conflicts: There are a series of conflicts that run throughout this story, the most important being Trujillo’s abuse of his dictatorship over the country, an external conflict between Trujillo and society. There are a series of conflicts that run throughout this story= Main clause the most important being Trujillo’s abuse of his dictatorship over the country= Definite article;adverb;noun;particple;modifiers an external...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundWithAnArticle/hqlwl/post.htm#666811Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:16:44 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:666811cliveHi, Welcome to the Forum. Yes, an article with a gerund is fine. eg In my English class, we practice speaking and writing. I enjoy the writing, but I don't enjoy the speaking. Best wishes, Clivehttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundWithAnArticle/hqlwl/post.htmSun, 08 Feb 2009 10:04:05 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:666581ariemichLook at the following sentence taken from Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness": "The conquest of the earth, which mostly means the taking it away from those who have a different complexion ..." The word "taking" here is a gerund, not a noun derived from the verb "take", because it has a direct object "it" (be it a noun, one should write "the taking of it"), yet it is used with a definite article. Is it permissible grammatically?http://www.englishforums.com/English/CheckForMePlease/hpbxl/post.htmSat, 31 Jan 2009 13:02:25 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:658880kittixayNormal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE TH Present Simple Tense - In case of preceded by the third person singular, the verb that changes in form is Verb to be and Verb to have - In case we add es is the verb that ends in S, SS, Ch, Sh, O, X - In case of the verb that ends in y, we change y into ies Modal Verbs : May-might, Can-could, Will-would, Shall-should, Must. If these verbs are preceded by the third person singular, don’t conjugate it and don’t use the preposition "to" - Besides these four captions above, if the verb is preceded by the third person singular just add S. - Present Simple...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TwoQestionsAboutClauses/2/hzwwx/Post.htm#613155Wed, 17 Dec 2008 14:47:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:613155alpheccastars1) 'There are a series' is actually the main clause is it not? The prep phrase is not needed as there is a subject and verb with its complement, 'series' is this correct? Indeed, you are right that the prep. phrase is not essential. However, the prep phrase is not a part of any other clause, and all parts of a sentence must accounted for in the analysis. This phrase is part of the predicate of the main clause. There is an existential 'there' so the sentence can be re-arranged to omit it, is this correct? Yes. Series is the subject. It is interesting in that "series" can be either singular or plural. The spelling does not change. A series of conflicts runs through.. 2) yes 3) yes 4) yes Finally,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/OneProblemsFacedEnglishLearners-Misconceptions/hrnkh/post.htm#588664Mon, 17 Nov 2008 23:27:00 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:588664avangieither "learners of the English language," or "English language learners." Why is article the essential here? There is only one English language. e.g. I'm learning Chinese language these days. Is there any need to specify Chinese language using the ? The use of the is justified in sentences as in ''I'm learning the Southern American English dialect nowadays . The article is required in all of these. I honestly have no idea why. My guess is that "language" is the object of the verb "to learn," and would require an article if it were used without "English" as a modifier. To qualify for standing without the article, a "subject of study" must be one of a few very...http://www.englishforums.com/English/Form/gpkhh/post.htm#577941Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:36:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:577941alpheccastars1) Where are you? I've been waiting for 2 hours 2) I needn't have brought that milk I = subject need have bought = verb; present perfect tense, modal form (need is the auxiliary), buy is the main verb, bought is the past participle. not - adverb that - demonstrative pronoun refering to milk milk - noun,object of the verb buy 3) He played truant He - subject play - verb, simple past tense truant - predicate noun ? (To be precise, I would have to look in a dictionary to see if "play" is transitive or intransitive in this case. 4) I stopped to give my friend a lift I = subject stopped - verb, simple past to give my friend a lift - infinitive phrase, adverb, modifying "stop"., "to give" is...http://www.englishforums.com/English/APrepositionInfinitiveMarker/blvmc/post.htm#574670Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:22:37 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:574670scottsoxI agree with the previous post that the original author's translation isn't precisely parallel. "Study" may either be a noun or a verb, but if you want to use "exploring," then you should use "studying" too to keep both of them as gerunds/participles. The Hebrew text of the verse uses a pair of infinitive constructs, which, if my rusty Hebrew knowledge is reliable, implies the substantive use of the infinitive: the process of studying and the process of seeking out. (Interestingly enough, the Hebrew forms are prefixed with the Hebrew preposition "to." If Solomon wanted to emphasize the verbal aspect, he could have used an intensive construction in Hebrew, which, literally translated in...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TwoInfinitives/gxxqn/post.htm#574284Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:21:34 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:574284richard_sIn that case, the quote is probably: To quit in space is the same as to quit in the corridor.   As Clive points out, you need the as  in the sentence (always write the same as )  The infinitives can be used instead of the gerunds to give it more of a sense of 'if you do it', other than that, as Clive says, in ordinary speech we would usually use the gerund (~ing) form. As for articles, you are right; they are very difficult to learn.  The good news is that they are not terribly important for making yourself understood.  If you miss a few articles, or put them incorrectly, most native speakers can understand what you mean.  On the other hand, if you omit a subject in a clause or omit the verb, or use the wrong form of the verb,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/TheContinuousTense/gnlvz/post.htm#568328Sat, 20 Sep 2008 15:52:57 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:568328tanitHi Is it a rule that the auxiliary, the past participle and the main verb are immediately after one another with no other words inbetween? No, such a rule does not exist. For example: " Have you ever had the feeling that you're being followed ?" This sentence has both "have" and "had" and two continuous verbs in it ("feeling" and "being"), but is it neither Present Perfect Continuous nor Past Perfect Continuous? Your sentence is in the present perfect. " Have you ever had ..." " the feeling " is a gerund, and acts as if it were a noun (it's the direct complement of "have had"). Try and replace it with "idea", "impression"...http://www.englishforums.com/English/ModifierArticleIncluded/gngjd/post.htm#566924Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:31:01 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:566924cliveHi, Please tell me if these sound strange or need more explanation or perhaps are correct as they are. 1. I go to a high school in Tokyo. I went to two different high schools before that. Fine. Wltth the article, you are talking about places. Without it, you are talking more about your level of education. 2. My love is the/his swimming. Sounds odd. Why not just say 'I love his swimming' or 'I love to watch him swim'? Or perhaps you mean 'I love swimming' or 'I love to swim Most of times, I hear people say, "I go to school," but can I say "I go to a school"? Again, yes, if you want to think of the school as a building, as a place. I have seen such structures as "I love to watch his...http://www.englishforums.com/English/ModifierArticleIncluded/gngjd/post.htmTue, 16 Sep 2008 21:45:56 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:566885anonymousHi, Please tell me if these sound strange or need more explanation or perhaps are correct as they are. 1. I go to a high school in Tokyo. I went to two different high schools before that. 2. My love is the/his swimming. Most of times, I hear people say, "I go to school," but can I say "I go to a school"? I have seen such structures as "I love to watch his cooking of vegetable soup." Does it sound OK when a gerund has an article or possessive in front of it?http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundOrJustAPlainNoun/gnvhj/post.htm#566304Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:50:16 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:566304raenhmm..I see your point. I have thought the article "the" disqualified "painting" from being a gerund. But you're right, it could very well be the task of applying paint to the walls . Thank you GG. Raenhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/3/glxnv/Post.htm#560392Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:24:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560392mrpedanticHe enjoys being seen in my company. I would like to see the passive forms of other nouns, like a girl or courage , for example I like that thought. But (devil's advocate) doesn't it assume what it seeks to prove – that a complete (?compound-)noun may not have a "passive" form? For if "being seen" is a complete (?compound-)noun, then...nouns may have passive forms...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/3/glxnv/Post.htm#560381Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:35:17 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560381cool breezehow do you feel about possessives before a gerund? "John's singing bothered me". You are constantly told that the possessive should be used before a gerund(unless you are saying something weird and you wish to emphasise the subject of the gerund). I have given my opinion in an earlier post. Page 1 of this thread offers you a link to it (subject of gerund). As the gerund fluctuates between being a noun and a verb and resembles both to some extent, it stands to reason that a genitive is often possible before it and so is an adjectival attribute - at least in your example. I don't really care what the ing-form is called in each case. I'm not obsessed with terminology. If anyone thinks the gerund is a complete noun,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#560354Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:30:03 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560354crokeyhi cb, its me again! how do you feel about possessives before a gerund? "John's singing bothered me". You are constantly told that the possessive should be used before a gerund(unless you are saying something weird and you wish to emphasise the subject of the gerund). However, "John's loud singing bothered me", well "loud" is an adjectival attribute modifying singing, and you will never get an adverb to fit in there. "the correct speaking of the english language is important", "correctly speaking english is important". So, is it fair to say that if you can modify the -ing form with an adjecitval attribute, then it is a verbal noun and not a gerund? "john's singing the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#560170Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:41:35 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560170crokeyGenerally, what follows the "of" in a double possessive will be definite and human, not otherwise, so we would say "a friend of my uncle's" but not "a friend of the museum's ." What precedes the "of" is usually indefinite ( a friend, not the best friend), unless it's preceded by the demonstratives this or that, as in "this friend of my father's." - http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm the nail is never comin out now!!! enjoy the tennis, i'm off to the hardware store to get a few screws, they should be easier to bury than nails!!!http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#560167Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:52:40 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560167cool breeze"the singing of the bird awoke me" or "the singing of the bird's awoke me" ? as "a friend of my uncle's", where you use the post-genitive form. You're welcome! I'll start watching the US Open (tennis) on TV in a moment but before that: You can say: He is a friend of John, or: He is a friend of John's. You can not say: He is the friend of John 's , except perhaps in some extremely rare cases where normal grammatical rules don't apply. Similarly, the singing of the bird 's is ungrammatical; you have to say the singing of the bird. CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#560056Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:54:22 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560056crokeyhi cb, im so happy i joined this forum now, because i think your comment about verbal nouns can be modified by an adjectival attribute. You said it your previous reply, but i must have missed it(it was nearly 4am in korea when i read it!), and i think the tiresome banging of the nail's head is well and truly finished! On further research, the naming of other nouns derived from verbs, such as survival from survive or action from act, is a fairly contentious area, and i am going to take a leaf from your book, and stay the bloody-hell away from it!!! Just one other question CB, "the singing of the bird awoke me" or "the singing of the bird's awoke me" ? as "a friend of my uncle's", where you use...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#560024Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:02:30 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560024cool breezeWhich one sounds natural to you if that judgment can be made? I am asking because in rare cases, I have difficulty choosing one because they sound and look the same to me. For most cases similar to the one noted, I feel the first with an object is preferred or correct one. 1.This playground is for playing soccer. 2.This playground is for the playing of soccer. I think you had better ask a native speaker about sounding natural. I would probably utter the first sentence because it's shorter but as I have a long background of being exposed to various varieties of English, even the second sentence sounds completely natural to me . That doesn't mean it sounds natural to all native speakers! CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#560011Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:00:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:560011anonymousThank you so much. I learned something I had not known before. I think you hit a home run. Which one sounds natural to you if that judgment can be made? I am asking because in rare cases, I have difficulty choosing one because they sound and look the same to me. For most cases similar to the one noted, I feel the first with an object is preferred or correct one. 1.This playground is for playing soccer. 2.This playground is for the playing of soccer.http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#559970Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:00:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559970cool breezeI agree with you on this but I wonder what is your opinion on this. This playground is for playing soccer. This playground is for the playing of soccer. In this situation, I feel the first sentence pattern is what a person will see more often out there in written form or in verbal situations, but I don't think the second one is wrong. Is it wrong? Both seem to be filling the position of a noun. Thank you for agreeing with me. However, agreeing isn't necessary at all. Diversity makes life interesting! As for your sentences, I have already explained my opinion about structures like these, but if people disagree with me, that's just fine. I don't mind in the least. In the first sentence, playing is a gerund required by...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#559965Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:40:18 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559965cool breeze"The speech of the english language is beautiful". speech is surely a verbal noun, derived from the verb speak but there is no action being performed, i am merely naming an action. When i say "The speaking of the english language is easy", am I naming an action or am I implying that an action may be performed that is difficult. I would consider speech incorrectly used in your sentence and in the terminology I am familiar with the term "verbal noun" only refers to nouns derived from verbs by adding ing . If you want to use the term in another sense, I have absolutely nothing against it. I am not in the least trying to impose my terminology upon others, I just have to stick to something and be consistent,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/2/glxnv/Post.htm#559842Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:54:31 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559842anonymousHi, Thank you. You said: The speaking of English is easy. (A verbal noun and because speaking is a noun, the is posible before it. Even an adjectival attribute can be used: The correct speaking of English is easy. ) Speaking English is easy. (A gerund, which to my mind is neither a verb nor a noun but a little bit of both. The is not possible before a gerund, nor is an adjectival attribute and these two things are a clear sign (to me) that a gerund is not a noun: Correct speaking English is easy. (WRONG!!!) I agree with you on this but I wonder what is your opinion on this. This playground is for playing soccer. This playground is for the playing of soccer. In this situation, I feel the first sentence pattern is what a person will...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559761Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:44:28 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559761crokeyHi CB, thanks so much for your reply(i was the one who asked about the differences between verbal nouns and gerunds). i agree that there seems to be discrepancies between one grammarians usage and another's. I certainly like your definition of gerunds, in so far as they are unable to take the definite article, however: " the gerund expresses action it is often preceded by the definite article" e.g.(given) "Our culture therefore must not omit the arming of the man." from An English Grammar by W. M. Baskervill & J. W. Sewell. Perhaps your example might be used to illustrate the conundrum further: "The speech of the english language is beautiful". speech is surely a verbal noun, derived from the...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559715Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:32:42 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559715cool breezeWhy do you think RayH seemed to have said this has to be "the fearful wailing"? 1)He heard a fearful wailing of a dog I think he said it has to be: 2)He heard the fearful wailing of a dog I think RayH is correct but I also think no. 1 can be correct under a right situation. I think it would have been better if the sentence had a plural noun after "of" like this: He heard a fearful wailing of dogs You'll have to wait for RayH's explanation for his preferences. He heard a fearful wailing of a dog is fine grammatically but it does suggest that you may hear different kinds of wailings of a dog and therefore the sentence may sound odd to some. The plural dogs simply indicates that there were at least two dogs,...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559687Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:36:08 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559687anonymoushi, i've been struggling with coming to grips with the differences between verbal nouns and gerunds. e.g. John's singing the national anthem bothered me. or John's singing of the national anthem bothered me. which is correct, and in the second case is 'singing' a gerund or verbal noun? The beginning of the book is better than the middle or end sections. The beginning of a new book is always the most rewarding part. (beginning here meaning starting to read) the first case is rather clear, i am not speaking of an action and it must be a verbal noun, but you can see where the problem lies. The writing of a book is always an ambitious undertaking. ( writing is the verbal noun) from an article on verbal nouns on...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559654Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:19:02 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559654anonymousHi, thank you. Why do you think RayH seemed to have said this has to be "the fearful wailing"? 1)He heard a fearful wailing of a dog I think he said it has to be: 2)He heard the fearful wailing of a dog I think RayH is correct but I also think no. 1 can be correct under a right situation. I think it would have been better if the sentence had a plural noun after "of" like this: He heard a fearful wailing of dogshttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559623Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:46:32 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559623cool breezeHe heard a fearful wailing of a dog, Fine, especially because of the adjectival attribute. Adjectives tend to enable the use of an indefinite article in many contexts. Examples: Birds were flying in the sky. Birds were flying in a blue sky. I had lunch. I had an early lunch. I saw George Bush on TV last night. I saw a sad George Bush on TV last night. CBhttp://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559485Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:18:50 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559485anonymousThank you. I think it would be OK to speak of a pen that he found which belonged to his friend, Joe, like this: I found a (one) pencil of a student. -- If the situation is that only studnents use pen (unbelievable as it sounds) and he don't know whose pen it is. I found the pencil of a student. -- If the pen is prior-mentioned or if a student in wherever he is used only one pen, not two pencils ever. I think your corrected version sounds right but I can't dispel the notion that my versions might be correct too under a right circumstance. I think we are making an instance of the uncountable noun "wailing" and that "instance" notion might get fuzzy if the definite article "the" is used in my opinion (I...http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htm#559471Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:44:30 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559471rayhA feartul wailing was heard. He heard a fearful wailing. These are correct. He heard a fearful wailing of a dog, or, He heard a fearful wailing of the dog of the next-door neighbor. You need to say "the fearful wailing" in these. Also, it would be much more natural sounding to say "of his next-door neighbor's dog"http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundVerbalNounArticle/glxnv/post.htmWed, 27 Aug 2008 22:13:38 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:559440anonymousHi, I think I found out the word 'wailing' is an uncountable noun. If that is so, then is this correct? A feartul wailing was heard. He heard a fearful wailing. I would be more comfortable if I saw something like this: He heard a fearful wailing of a dog, or, He heard a fearful wailing of the dog of the next-door neighbor.http://www.englishforums.com/English/GerundUsage/gjjjw/post.htmTue, 29 Jul 2008 14:25:20 GMT946f00bb-57d3-4b7b-a9a2-059b5341af52:548105changelingHi everybody! I’m writing an article about sports food. Could you, please, check if my sentence grammatically correct? The second myth is about sports food overburdening the digestive and excretion systems Thanks in advance