Search results for 'tag:Grammar tag:Noun phrases' matching tags 'Grammar' and 'Noun phrases'

'For example, although it is true to say that the noun group is the structure we choose for "the things" we want to talk about, it is not the only one.'

Peaceblinkfriend — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:35:18 GMT

For example, although it is true to say that the noun group is the structure we choose for the things we want to talk about, it is not the only one. Sometimes we want to talk about an event or an idea that is not easy to express in a noun group. Instead we can use a clause as the subject of another clause. e.g All I want is a holiday. (Quoted from the introduction of Collins COBUILD English Grammar )

I don't quite understand what it means by 'the things we want to talk about'. What is being referred to by 'the things'? For all it's worth, according to the glossary included in the grammar, a noun group is a group of words which acts as the subject, complement, or object of a clause, or as the object of a preposition. Also called nominal group or noun phrase.

Thank you

PBF

Re: participle as a subject

Cool Breeze — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:38:04 GMT

CalifJim
Your question opens up a good many sticky points in the terminology. Do we (Can we) talk about certain structures by naming them without regard to their function in context? Or not? Probably not. Is love a noun or a verb? Only context will tell.

Hmm... this seems to be another case of varying terminology. I have no objection to calling a participle an adjective, I'm just not used to that. Nor am I used to many other grammatical terms used here, like "a noun phrase". Don't get me wrong! I certainly don't mean there's anything wrong with it or that it is worse or better than the terms I am used to. I just had never heard it before I hit these forums. I can guess at the meaning of such expressions, of course.

The terminology must sometimes be confusing to learners whose native languages are so different from English that they don't even have verbs, let alone participles or gerunds! I can't start using terms I am not familiar with and thus I use the terms I learned to use in school ages ago. Hopefully I'll still be of use and assistance to some learners, at least to those who come from European countries. I'm sure I sometimes just confuse native speakers of English.

That tradition is centuries old in Europe. It is probably based on early grammarians' work and analysis of Latin. For example, "my" and its equivalents in all the grammar books that I have read and that deal with Finnish, Swedish, German, English and Latin grammar is invariably called a pronoun. In America, I think it's a called a possessive adjective? Perhaps in Britain too. Of course it isn't used instead of a noun and thus the name is misleading, but grammarians just call it a possessive pronoun anyway. It is a matter of what has been more or less consciously agreed upon. I have seen the term "dependent possessive pronoun" used to refer to "my", and the term "independent possessive pronoun" has been applied to words like "mine" because they don't need a noun after them. Therefore they are "independent". If I began to use such terms here, I'm sure I would confuse people even more!

Yes, context will tell, and I think it is plain to see in all cases. In Finnish, there are no such problems - if that is a problem at all. A noun cannot be mistaken for a verb. Nouns and verbs are always different words.

Cheers, CB

Re: participle as a subject

CalifJim — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:48:17 GMT

Cool Breeze
I am walking. Walking is an adjective?

"allegedly" See below.

From Introduction to the Grammar of English (Huddleston, Cambridge Textbooks in Linguistics)

... participles are said to be 'verbal adjectives'.

First example given:

He was telling the truth.

Later:

... a present participle ... allegedly has adjectival properties. I say 'allegedly' because it is difficult to see any significant functional resemblance to an adjective ... [in the first example on the list].

He goes on to say that the -ing words in such examples are clearly verbs, while in other contexts they are clearly adjectives.

_____

With respect to the original question then, I suppose the more accurate description is that participles are either parts of verb phrases or are adjectives. In either case, a participle -- being verb or adjective -- cannot be the subject of a sentence unless it is in the cleft sentence structure, as illustrated earlier in the thread by GG. I think that's the only structure that allows a participle or an adjective to be promoted to the status of a noun phrase so it can be a subject.

At least that's my claim. Maybe someone can provide a counterexample. That would be instructive.

Edit:

'Destroyed' is the best description of that town.

Here a participle (adjective) is promoted to a noun and is the subject of the sentence. So there are cases other than the cleft sentence structure that allow it. Nevertheless, note the quotes. It works in the same way that anything in quotes can be promoted to subject:

'Xygneoowytoeyy' is a nonsense word.

'got into the truck' is not a complete sentence.

_____

Your question opens up a good many sticky points in the terminology. Do we (Can we) talk about certain structures by naming them without regard to their function in context? Or not? Probably not. Is love a noun or a verb? Only context will tell.

Cool Breeze
To hear him sing is an unforgettable experience.

to hear him sing is a sentence with a non-finite verb used as a noun phrase in a higher level sentence. The idea is that the terminological identity of a word or group of words may change depending on which level in a hierarchy of clauses it is considered. At the lowest level of the "tree", to hear is indeed an infinitive (a non-finite verb), but in the context of the whole sentence (higher in the hierarchical tree), to hear him sing is the subject of the main clause, is nominal in nature, and is called a noun phrase. (Infinitives are often nominal in nature, so this is not surprising; for example, [I want + noun phrase] can take either of these forms: I want some pizza. I want to sing.)

Cool Breeze
Using an infinitive as a subject may not be common in American English

Actually, infinitives are used in AmE as subjects. The location geographically or historically has nothing to do with it. But infinitives (and their complement(s), if any), taken together, can make noun phrases.

To be absolutely precise, it is a noun phrase (NP) that must be the subject of a sentence. I oversimplified by saying 'noun or pronoun'.

Re: When the teacher (had) arrived, they stopped talking.

Ant_222 — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 12:21:49 GMT

New2grammar
My problem with definite and indefinite articles is less than with definite/indefinite pronouns. I think I'm starting to see other and another as indefinite articles, my as definite article and mine as indefinite article.

There's no such corellation, except for "another", which is in fact "an" + "other", so dont' need to think of these words as capable of rendering a noun definite or indefinite on their own.

"Take by my hand" â how can it be definite when we don't no which hand is in question?

"Your English is better than mine" â how can it be indefinite when it's a comparison of the English skills of two people?

... And so on.

New2grammar
I have to say referring to other, another, my, mine as definite/indefinite is something new to me.

We didn't refer to this words alone. It were noun phrases buit therewith that we called definite or indefinite. And since nouns can be (in)definte, that's all right.

Re: Grammar- is using versus is by using

26TMNTJG2PG — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:58:07 GMT

I have recently found 'by using public transport' in the following sentence is closely connected with the prepositional phrase in LEO. Therefore, it should be a prepositional phrase that followed 'One way of lowering fuel consumption is'.

One way of lowering fuel consumption is by using public transport. - Your above assertion can only be correct if (the preposition) by is necessary. Let us see the functions of a preposition stated below to determine this.

The best time to practice water conservation is before a water shortage. (prepositional phrase = noun functioning as a complement - Besides it also tells us about the time.)

As for the noun phrase 'using public transport', it can also function as a gerund phrase according to the example below shown by LEO - gerund phrase is just a general name. One way of lowering fuel consumption is using public transport.

One of Serena Williams' biggest disappointments after her semifinal defeat was losing her spot for tennis singles in the Olympics. (gerund phrase = complement - Besides it also tells us about the disappointments.)

A preposition shows in what relation one thing stands to another, i.e. what one thing has to do with another in respect of Place, Situation, Circumstance and Time.

Unlike the following sentence which indicates a situation or circumstance, the preposition by is necessary:-

We learn more by not taking answers at face value.

Regards.

Re: Grammar- is using versus is by using

bhikkhu1991 — Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:07:06 GMT

Hello,

I have recently found 'by using public transport' in the following sentence is closely connected with the prepositional phrase in LEO. Therefore, it should be a prepositional phrase that followed 'One way of lowering fuel consumption is'.

One way of lowering fuel consumption is by using public transport.

The best time to practice water conservation is before a water shortage. (prepositional phrase = noun functioning as a complement)
LEO-prepositional phrase= preposition + object of the preposition + modifiers.

As for the noun phrase 'using public transport', it can also function as a gerund phrase according to the example below shown by LEO.

One way of lowering fuel consumption is using public transport.

One of Serena Williams' biggest disappointments after her semifinal defeat was losing her spot for tennis singles in the Olympics. (gerund phrase = complement)
LEO- gerund phrase = gerund + modifiers, objects, or complements.

I am only a learner of English, I hope the experts or grammarians can correct this reply.

Thank you.

With best wishes.

Re: Grammar- is using versus is by using

26TMNTJG2PG — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 05:05:04 GMT

I wish to present a different way of looking at the sentences.

One way of lowering fuel consumption is using public transport.
(You can rewrite as: Using public transport is one way of lowering fuel consumption.)

' Using public transport' is a noun phrase having a dual-function role here:

1) being complement of the verb (of incomplete predication) 'is' and

2) in apposition with the noun 'way'.

One way of lowering fuel consumption is by using public transport.

(Here you can't rewrite as: By using public transport is one way of lowering fuel consumption.)

We normally say by doing something, you get/achieve something.

So, the sentence needs to be rephrased as - One can/will lower fuel consumption by using public transport

or By using public transport, one can/will lower fuel consumption.

' By using public transport' here is an adverb phrase of manner modifying the verb 'can lower or will lower'.

Re: What types of phrases?

Mr Wordy — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:35:03 GMT

Grammatical terminology is not my strongest suit, but let me take a stab.

A) "using public transport" is a noun phrase. So, you could equally well say "Using public transport is one way of lowering fuel consumption".

B) I'd guess that "by using public transport" is an adverbial phrase. This a common form of wording, and the meaning is perfectly obvious, but the more I look at it, the more I wonder if this sentence is strictly grammatically correct. "by using public transport" seems to be just "hanging in mid-air" and not directly qualifying anything else in the sentence. (This is in contrast to, say, "Lowering fuel consumption by using public transport is a benefit to all", where "by using public transport" seems to correctly qualify "lowering fuel consumption".) I'd be interested to know what experts in grammar say.

Re: grammar learning

Grammar Geek — Wed, 14 May 2008 23:40:37 GMT

Raen, at times like this I realize just how poorly I chose my nickname here.

What goes from one person to the other is the DIRECT object. The $50.

The person who receives the direct object is the INDIRECT object. The clerk.

I sent a letter to my sister. The letter is the DO, and my sister is the IO.

"exactly how that was done" is, I think a noun phrase serving as the object. Exactly what was done is what I'd like to know. See how it serves as the subject when you turn it around? It's a noun phrase.

I'm sorry, but someone else is going to have to address your second question. I've never seen the value in learning this stuff. I tell my 11 year old that, but then tell her she has to do her homework anyway.

Re: a sexual perversion characterized by pleasure in being subjected...

Jackson6612 — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:47:56 GMT

Grammar Geek
I think it is used to differentiate from a stranger.

Barbara, I know you are correct. It's just that I'm little confused about the structure of your sentence. It seems to me as if you have missed the noun phrase a lover after differentiate. If you had used the phrase, the sentence would read:
I think it is used to differentiate a love from a stranger.

I'm curious about the reason for missing that phrase. Perhaps, it's just the way the English language works