Search results for 'tag:Idioms tag:Subjunctives' matching tags 'Idioms' and 'Subjunctives'

Re: Native-speaker/native language

Tanit — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:03:57 GMT

Forbes

I remember listening to a radio programme about the varieties of forms of speech in Italy ... They simply change language like they change clothes without worrying about the status of their "home" speech.

There's some truth in that article. My parents, for instance, used to speak in Sardinian (not a dialect, but recognised as an endangered language by the UNESCO) when talking to each other or to their relatives, but they would only speak Italian with my brother and me. I grew up monolingual, and although I can understand Sardinian, I am unable to articulate a sentence that contains more than a few words!

Many people who speak both Italian and their dialect, although able to switch from the first to the second depending on the context, speak a form of Italian that I would classify as regional and sub-standard. I noticed that people from Southern Italy (I have little experience of Northern Italy) who speak also a dialect usually don't speak standard Italian, but a form of language deeply affected by their dialect. Accent is not an issue. I find some grammatical structures odd, as well as the choice of some verb modes, tenses and aspects (ex. past simple versus present perfect, indicative versus subjunctive), and have problems with some vocabulary (let alone idioms, of course). I am usually able to understand the general meaning, though.

Re: worse/worst

Yoong Liat — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:33:19 GMT

Yankee wrote:
Just to add a little more confusion to this thread, I'd like to mention that I've also heard this idiom used with 'came' (i.e. in a sentence with the same format as a type 2 conditional). I've just never actually heard it used with the subjunctive 'come'.

Just to clear things up.
I don't understand why Kenneth G. Wilson wrote: 'if worst come to worst' as it is grammatically wrong.

Kenneth G. Wilson (1923â). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

if (when) worse (worst) come(s) to worst

Re: worse/worst

Yankee — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:19:20 GMT

Just to add a little more confusion to this thread, I'd like to mention that I've also heard this idiom used with 'came' (i.e. in a sentence with the same format as a type 2 conditional). I've just never actually heard it used with the subjunctive 'come'.

Re: worse/worst

Yankee — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:07:02 GMT

Hi YL

If the word 'come' is used, then it would be subjunctive. I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone use this idiom with the subjunctive, though.

be it

Teleostomi — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 07:32:14 GMT

You do as you like! But on your own head be it if we have trouble from this scorpion, Wolff! I disclaim all responsibility!

This quotation is from Tintin.

What on earth does "be it" here mean? Is it an idiom or a present subjunctive?

Re: is this sentence correct? God forbid, he died such a fearful death.

Yankee — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:33:44 GMT

Isn't "God forbid" an example of a subjunctive expression that has simply turned into an "idiom"? Something like the expressions "Long live the Queen." and "Be that as it may"?

Re: would rather that ..

Feathers — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:40:26 GMT

Inchoateknowledge wrote:
Feathers wrote:

I would rather that you come here than that I go to your place.
______________________________________

Hello all,

I understand the meaning of the sentence above. I know that this is a natural sentence for native Englsih speakers. Still it seems puzzling to me: what is the main verb of the sentence?

Thank you so much, in advance, for your help.

Hello Feathers

How are you? You still in Japan?

would rather is a verbal idiom

BTW, the sentence is incorrect.

I would rather that you came ... .

!!

Subjunctive?

Re: use of wouuld rather

Mister Micawber — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:14:09 GMT

Listen carefully:

I would rather you didn't use the Volvo this afternoon

'Would rather + someone else do something' is a modal idiom of hypothesis properly taking the subjunctive.

Re: How can you tell whether someone is a non-native speaker?

julielai — Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:12:31 GMT

MrPedantic wrote:
Hello Julie
But on the whole, non-standard natives make different mistakes from non-native standards. NSNs may be unusual in grammar, but they're usually strong in idiom. And a very good NNS will often hyper-correct (in the use of the subjunctive, for instance, or the past perfect).

I can safely say that if the language in question is Chinese, I can spot a non-native speaker every time. (After all, how many non-native Chinese speakers can master the language?)

Re: How can you tell whether someone is a non-native speaker?

MrPedantic — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:09:12 GMT

Julielai wrote:

Just out of curiosity, Mr. P, how do you distinguish a native speaker who's learned a non-standard form of English from a decent non-native speaker? (e.g. How can you tell if a speaker born in India, Singapore or other Asian countries is native?)

Hello Julie

I'm not sure I always could â sometimes I'm not sure whether a poster is speaking erratic non-native English, or a US dialect, for instance (especially if the erraticism resides in the modal verbs!).

But on the whole, non-standard natives make different mistakes from non-native standards. NSNs may be unusual in grammar, but they're usually strong in idiom. And a very good NNS will often hyper-correct (in the use of the subjunctive, for instance, or the past perfect).

(I'm speaking very theoretically here, though â merely spouting impressions!)

MrP