Search results for 'tag:Indirect questions tag:Numbers' matching tags 'Indirect questions' and 'Numbers'

confused about 'would'

New2grammar — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:10:33 GMT

I know 'would' carries many meanings. My problem is sometimes I find it difficult to tell which meaning the speaker uses. I think I understand its hypothetical usage, and in some contexts, its politeness usage. Below is a post that has several woulds I have trouble interpreting. I also copied a post on would by CalifJim for reference.

Your analysis is good. Context will determine if you're using the expression as an excuse to break off what you're doing. If you're calling the people you expect to meet, then you would (1)tell them the truth. You can say, "I'll be about five minutes late," or "I may be a little late." If you're speaking to someone who is about to make you late for an appointment, the expression would(2) mean, "Hey, I'm gonna be late if I don't split right now!" If you just say, "I'm gonna be late," you probably would(3) have already tipped the person off that you would(4) need to end the conversation soon, and as you suggest, you would(5) still expect to be on time if you left immediately.

1) I don't thing politeness is the intended meaning here. To my ear, it carries the meaning of preference.

2) would here means possible? I have zero confidence in this one.

3) it doesn't look like hypothetical usage to me because the if clause is in present tense

4) and 5) should follow the same reasoning for #3, whatever that is.

Please help! Thanks in advance!

CalifJim's explanation on would
Yes. I thought maybe that's what you were referring to.
would in an if clause is possible when the would or the entire if-clause is part of a formula of politeness. if you would be so kind is a typical example of if with would in a "politeness phrase". This formula is equivalent to please. This sort of if-clause does not even have to be classified as a true conditional even though it contains the word if.

The phrase would like as a polite way of saying want, and it too can appear in an if-clause. Note that the idiom would like counts as a present tense for purposes of tense combinations. That is, it may combine with the imperative or the future. The idiom would rather has the same property.

If you would like to have dinner with us tomorrow, please call and let us know before noon.
I'm sure that if he'd like to go with us, he'll tell us. (If he would like to go, he will tell us.)
If you'd rather wait until tomorrow, [just say so / I'll understand].

if-clauses that are part of an indirect question structure are also exempt from the rule about combining if and would:

I wonder if he would object to this procedure.
I don't know if I would agree.
We had not decided if we would go along with the plan.

With the exception of the indirect question structure, which is quite common, these are just a very, very small number of situations where if and would occur in the same clause. The main rule for 99.99% of cases is 'never' to place if and would together!

Re: Resposta: Re: Resposta: do you know where is it or it is??

CalifJim — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 02:20:12 GMT

Unfortunately, this is an area of English which may be slowly undergoing a change. Not only do non-native speakers have difficulty with it, but a surprising number of educated native speakers seem to be using the inverted structure "incorrectly" more and more. It is so prevalent that some books are calling it neither a direct question nor an indirect question, but a semi-indirect question!

It is probably better to stick to the "correct" version until so many people are doing it that the grammar experts finally give up and say it's perfectly fine!

You will find, however, that native speakers usually generate the "incorrect" form only when the indirect question is quite long -- almost never with indirect questions of very few words.

CJ

Re: would

CalifJim — Thu, 09 Mar 2006 03:23:34 GMT

Yes. I thought maybe that's what you were referring to.
would in an if clause is possible when the would or the entire if-clause is part of a formula of politeness. if you would be so kind is a typical example of if with would in a "politeness phrase". This formula is equivalent to please. This sort of if-clause does not even have to be classified as a true conditional even though it contains the word if.

The phrase would like as a polite way of saying want, and it too can appear in an if-clause. Note that the idiom would like counts as a present tense for purposes of tense combinations. That is, it may combine with the imperative or the future. The idiom would rather has the same property.

If you would like to have dinner with us tomorrow, please call and let us know before noon.
I'm sure that if he'd like to go with us, he'll tell us. (If he would like to go, he will tell us.)
If you'd rather wait until tomorrow, [just say so / I'll understand].

if-clauses that are part of an indirect question structure are also exempt from the rule about combining if and would:

I wonder if he would object to this procedure.
I don't know if I would agree.
We had not decided if we would go along with the plan.

With the exception of the indirect question structure, which is quite common, these are just a very, very small number of situations where if and would occur in the same clause. The main rule for 99.99999% of cases is 'never' to place if and would together!

CJ

Re: "No future tense in time clause"

Jack-in-the-box — Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:54:03 GMT

Thank you very much.
As for number 7: I was thinking of sentences like "If you will pardon me for saying so, it's... (it'll be...)" I suppose that "will" is not the auxiliary verb here, but means "are willing to, want to" or something like that; so, it doesn't seem to be a true exception. Nevertheless, if one simply says, e. g., " never put 'will' after 'if' ", such a rule really doesn't work: because "if" may introduce an indirect question (= "whether"), as you noticed yourself; and because of such common phrases as "if you will pardon me".
"My heart is in the coffin": don't worry, I'm not that depressed. But I had written "Bear with me", and those words reminded me of what follows in Marc Antony's speech:

"Bear with me;
my heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
and I must pause till it come back to me."

Just a silly quotation! (The second emoticon means: "Please come and have a good cup of coffee with us".)