Search results for 'tag:Learning English tag:Idioms' matching tags 'Learning English' and 'Idioms'

Re: we best learn a language by using that language

PrinnySquad — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:47:03 GMT

I am not a teacher, but I feel inclined to respond.

The best way to study any language is to use that language as often as one can. There is no denying that. However, I know this question has something to do with TEFLese, which is known as a bad approach to learning English by simply repeating strict patterns, or trying to produce "correct" form of sentences, without really using it.
This method is horrible. But there is a way to remedy this illness.I think we should focus more on writing. Writing encourages creativity and forces one to fully use the language. Writing is also generally accepted as one of the harder of the four skills. Just being able to produce simple sentences, or fill in blanks, won't help in real life situation. Rather, the grammar, vocabulary, and idioms we know will only dwell on our receptive, not active knowledge of English. And someday they will just dwindle away to nothing.

Re: there's no joy that lies before us

WBB-EF — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:33:51 GMT

CalifJim
General remark:

Does it seem plausible that someone who doesn't know what "lies before us" means would know what the idiom "to be in store" means?

CJ

Hi, CalifJim,

Actually, I do not know about it,

I am still a learner who is working hard everyday on learning English...

Anyway, thanks for your help, you guys.

Re: I miss you. Miss you a lot.

An Asian — Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:32:45 GMT

Hi Osee,

I don't understand what "saving Mother or Father question" means. It interests me to know and learn a new (to me) idiom. From what you've said I understand that, as a non-native speaker, you perceive the "I miss you... miss you a lot" do have "flirting" implication/connotation. That's exactly the same as my interpretation.

To make things a bit clearer, I am not the Chinese or Turkish girl in question, wanting or not-wanting to "make relation" with anybody. I am a male Asian guy, learning English, seeking the true meaning and use of the English verb "TO MISS" in sentences like "I miss you", "Miss you a lot", especially when used between opposite-sex friends. Those friends know clearly they can't go any further than "just friends". So is the use of these sentences in their correspondence wrong or OK?

Doll's reply is interesting. Don't know if she is a native or not.

Opinions from native speakers are appreciated.

Thank you, Osee, for your replies.

Re: How would you define "native speaker of english"?

Anonymous — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 10:24:57 GMT

In my opinion the phrase 'native speaker of English' gains more relevance when referred to in a specific context such as that of a non-native speaker of English like me, who lived for two thirds of my working life in a non-English speaking country, and all of a sudden my life changed dramatically in the 90s, after the 'Romanian revolution', when I ended up living in UK. I'd started learning English in secondary school up to a graduate level in Romania, and at the age of 25 I followed a career as a successful English linguist, i.e. teaching, translating and interpreting in and out of English. However, when in my early 40s I moved to UK with the intention of settling here, I was faced with a language barrier I'd never anticipated, simply realising that my level of English was not high enough to satisfy my high linguistic needs and aspirations.

At present, despite recently obtaining an MA in English, the language barrier between my mother tongue and English seems to be more present than ever, and I have the feeling that I'm stuck in a no return situation. There is only one hope for me, and that is to continue to study English, and this is actually why I'm writing to this forum: I'd like to do some research on 'How to become a native speaker of English' by challenging anyone who's interested to take part in.

Here I am speaking about launching a study in Englishness at the same time, as, in my opinion, one cannot speak the language of a people without actually becoming one of the people of that country. From my own experience, it is not only the language that poses a problem to me, it is the Englishness itself that is part and parcel of the whole thing, i.e. that state which the native speakers have acquired together with the language and which has shaped them into what they are as a result of acquiring their mother tongue. A language is not only a set of rules, it is a way of thinking and behaving in a particular way, using certain native phrases, idioms and collocations which make sense only in a certain linguistic context, and to which the English speakers are exposed to since the moment they were born. Therefore, if anyone has any illusion that they can 'become' English without mastering those 'charming' idioms and collocations, they will be in for the shock of their lives when they find themselves in a native English society, for example, and they open their mouth for the first time: they will be automatically classed as 'foreign', and there will always be an unsurpassable barrier between them end the English.

Maybe many of you wouldn't mind living in a state of marginalization for the rest of their lives - after all there are people and people, and many non-native English speakers are successful honourable citizens living, working and bringing up their children here in UK, and I respect and admire them for their successful lives. However, I haven't reached that level of happiness yet, and maybe there are many others like me who would like to speak English almost, if not at the same level with the native speakers. I know this may seem idealistic and impossible to attain, but at the moment I feel that there's no other way of finding my happiness than pursuing my linguistic career in English and in UK, and attaining a level of English according to my high standards.

So if you are interested in taking English as a foreign language up to English native speaker level please help me with your ideas, suggestions and English language learning experience after postgraduate level. At the moment I have gathered some learning materials such as: 'Cobuild Dictionary of Idioms', 'Cobuild Dictionary of Phrasal Verbs', 'Oxford Collocations', 'Longman Language Activator', etc,, which I'm going to start studying on my own and see if I can 'push' my English any further, and then write a book about it.

All I need is to find people interested in studying the same materials at the some time with me, and to see if we can take English to a level where we can express our ideas as freely and as naturally as in our native tongues. To me this is the challenge of my life, and I'd like to know that there are other enthusiastic non-native postgraduate students of any age who are ready to embark on, let's say, a one-year self taught course in Englishness.

Re: Poll: How many languages are you learning?

Timbo20 — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:25:15 GMT

hey guys. i just blundered over this homepage and as i`m presently learning english, i thought, this is a great idea. okay, to get to the point: i am learning two languages at the moment. one is, as you might guess, english. i want to get to a level where i can not just understand everything but use all the common english idioms and words and all this stuff that not everyone knows already. in addition i`m started studying spanish some months ago, on my own of course. but my spanish is streets away to be perfect. i`m just doing it, because i`ll be in need of it when i start studying this year (october). but i want to study anglophone cultures, so it seems that writing in english forums is a good idea. that`d be all. just two languages, but i think thats more than enough

Re: IDIOMS & PHRASES

Clive — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 04:25:07 GMT

Hi Mikaela,

I think that it is more proper to practice english words than to study idioms The problem arises when learners are exposed to native speakers, who use idioms freely. I've had people say things to me like 'I've been learning English for 10 years, but when the person beside me on the bus spoke to me, I didn't understand what he meant.' It's often because of idioms.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: Native-speaker intuition.

Cool Breeze — Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:15:57 GMT

Englishuser wrote:
I couldn't agree more: English idioms and spellings tend to be difficult even for many a native speaker! I would also like to add that the size of the English lexion makes learning English relatively difficult.

Just out of curiosity: What exactly do you try to sound like on your trips overseas?

Englishuser

Hi Englishuser

Yes, the English lexicon is larger than that of most languages. However, since many common words have numerous meanings, learning the basic vocabulary is quite easy. For example, this is what one can say if one knows the prepositions and the verb to get:

I get letters from him. It's getting late. You're getting on my nerves. Let's get off the bus. Get out of here! I don't get on with him. What are you getting at? He doesn't get about much anymore due to his sickness. He got over his illness. And so on. In many languages one needs a different word for each of these meanings.

Many years ago I read a study which said that an English blue-collar worker uses about 500 different words when he speaks. German has a smaller lexicon than English, but a German worker needs 800 words because in German one word doesn't have as many meanings as in English. I don't really know if these figures are accurate but my logic tells me there may be some truth in them.

As to your question what I try to sound like when I am overseas, I am not quite sure I know the answer. If I am in the USA, sounding American won't be a hindrance, so I suppose I don't try to avoid sounding American, at least not consciously. I guess I usually sound more or less Finnish or Scandinavian when I speak English. A retired opera singer has told me I have an exceptionally acute ear for music and rhythm, which explains my ability to imitate some accents. I can mimic a BBC newscaster if I have to, but it doesn't come very naturally to me. I have to force myself to it, so I never use that 'accent'.

Cheers

Re: Native-speaker intuition.

Englishuser — Sat, 21 Oct 2006 11:02:48 GMT

Hi Cool Breeze,

You wrote:

What is difficult about English are the countless idioms and spelling.

By the way, when I am abroad I try not to sound British or American even though I have been told that I am able to mimic the American accent quite well.

I couldn't agree more: English idioms and spellings tend to be difficult even for many a native speaker! I would also like to add that the size of the English lexion makes learning English relatively difficult.

Just out of curiosity: What exactly do you try to sound like on your trips overseas?

Englishuser

Re: Change English As You Wish

Cool Breeze — Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:20:32 GMT

Thank you to all those who have posted their suggestions to my little imagination game. Some have taken it very seriously thinking they would have to relearn English after the 'changes'. This was meant to be just a game, not for those wo take everything seriously, and of course in this game everybody automatically speaks and writes the new English fluently without having to learn anything.

In the colonial days several European languages got exported as taking peoples' lands from them was considered a virtue and something to be proud of. This resulted in some languages being more dominant than others. Spanish and French were the most important languages till the end of the 19th century when the USA rose to be No. 1 in world politics and commerce. The foundation for English as the lingua franca had been laid.

The world should be thankful. There is no such thing as an easy language; every language is difficult if the learner aims at perfection. However, there are grammatically and structurally far more complicated languages than English, and we should consider ourselves lucky it's only the spelling that drives us nuts about English, not inflections.

Here are the changes I would make to English:

A. Spelling: Grammar Geek, Alienvoord and Englishuser would all make changes to the spelling, and indeed so would I. I think Englishuser puts it nicely: "I'd certainly change the spelling of words with an 'irregular' spelling, that is, words whose pronunciation can't be determined basing on how they're spelt." I would also accept more than one spelling for a word in many cases.

There isn't enough space and I don't have enough time and patience to cover all the tens of thousands of words this entails, but here are some examples of new spellings:

OLD                                 NEW
fight                                  fite
perceive                           perceive, percieve
tough                                 tuf
though                              tho
knight                                 nite
caste                                 cast
pace                                 pace, pase
write                                 rite

B. Grammar: English grammar is so uncomplicated due to 500 years of simplifying foreign influence (200 years of Vikings and 300 years of Normans) that English grammar really couldn't be made much simpler even if it were an artificial language. However, as a foreigner I'll continue the foreign influence and enforce the following changes.

1. I will get rid of the third person singular s and has. Henceforth we will say: He speak English. He have a car. He have asked it twice. The s is a totally needless relic and Swedish, another Germanic language, needs no verb endings for any person even though it is more complicated than English in other respects.

2. There will be no irregular verbs from now on with the exception of to be and the defective or modal auxiliaries, which will remain unchanged. Examples of new English:

OLD                                 NEW
He saw us.                        He seed us.
He has written a letter.    He have rited a letter.
Who wrote it?                   Who/Hu rited it?
I haven't hit him.               I haven't hitted him.
I ran too fast.                    I runned too fast.

3. I'll return English to its pre-Shakespearean state with regard to questions and negations. Henceforth, English will be like the other Germanic languages and questions will be asked without the totally unnecessary do auxiliary:

OLD                                  NEW
Do you speak English? Speak you English?
I didn't see him.                  I seed not him.
Did you do it?                   Doed you it?

4. All past participles can be used attributively before nouns: a rited report, a catched fish, two asked questions, a surrendered country.

5. There will be no irregular plurals for nouns:

OLD                                     NEW
two men                               two mans
many children                      many childs
these phenomena              these phenomenons
two geese                           two gooses

6. Any uncountable noun can be used as a countable if the need arises:

OLD                                    NEW
two pieces of advice         two advices
two news items                  two newses

7. I'll leave the articles, pronouns, numerals, adjectives and adverbs as they are. There are countless idioms where the articles are used contrary to reason and logic, but non-natives' incorrect usage seldom gives rise to misunderstandings. Besides, who am I to deprive English of all its fascination?
Those who don't like sentences like He runned too fast have my permission to say He runned too fastly if they prefer that.

8. Since there are so few inflections, the word order will just have to remain as it it with a few exceptions. For the sake of clarity, some minor changes will take effect: You Only Live Twice has to be renamed (and rerecorded) You Live Only Twice. (Fortunately Nancy Sinatra is still alive, she can rerecord it next week!)

9. Some changes in clause equivalents would make English more exact, but I am reluctant to make them. I'll let English remain somewhat inexact. It is plain impossible to make it exact in every respect without more inflections, and more inflections would make learning English a more laborious task for non-natives.

Consider these examples:

Having said that, he left the room. (After he had said that, he left the room.)
"Having said that, he did win Wimbledon two years ago." (A tennis commentator has said something slightly negative about a player, then decides to mention a positive thing about him. The sentence does not usually mean: After he had said that, he won Wimbledon two years ago. But of course it could mean that, too.)

English abounds in ambiguity and native speakers disagree on what common verbs such as the defective auxiliaries mean in some contexts. I'll let all that be as it is, I know when to give up.

Vocabulary: I'll add some short words that can be used to indicate surprise, disbelief etc. in spoken English in sentences like: He goed there? You like not it! Haven't you seed it? I won't write the words here, though, I just think English could and should have more finesse and be more expressive and colorful.

I won't delete a single word from the vocabulary, on the contrary, I'll add a way of forming a word denoting a person from a town or a village. English already has many such words but on the whole they are rather impractical: a Liverpudlian, a Memphian. Some are easier: a Londoner, a New Yorker. But what do you call a person who lives in Timbuktu?

From now on, the ending will always be er: a Liverpooler, a Memphiser, an Uppsalaer, a Hong Konger, a Tokyoer, a Timbuktuer. This will add hundreds of thousands of words to English. I'll also let you call a Swede a Swedener and a Thai a Thailander if you wish.

I have simplified the grammar a little and that should help non-native learners in particular. I have left the basic structure of the language untouched except for the disappearance of do in questions and negations. But even this is actually a minor thing since it just returns English to the early 16th century.

I have increased the vocabulary a great deal. Every three-year-old Finn knows what to call a person from Timbuktu once he is told there is such a place. English-speaking kids should be able to do the same.

Cheers
CB

Re: Slangs

Goodman — Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:09:00 GMT

Anonymous wrote:
Hello,I'm Andrea...I'm from Peru and I need some help to present a Research Project about slang...You're a native english speaker,aren't you?...If you are,tell me : do you think that a person who is learning english as a foreign language should learn how to use slang also? I mean, would it be useful for him/her?

Idioms, colloquialism and slang may be difficult to distinguish for ESL learners. Be careful when using them. Itâs always important to learn a language the proper way first. I personally feel that learning slang for the sake of understanding it is fine but I won't to use it just to be âcoolâ. I believe people do judge you by how you articulate and the way you use your words. As others pointed out, if you don't understand it, don't loosely use it.