Search results for 'tag:Nominative tag:Prepositions' matching tags 'Nominative' and 'Prepositions'

Re: Whomever vs. whoever

Huevos — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:35:55 GMT

Anonymous
Adobe have launched their new text editor Buzzword. Their Welcome to Buzzword document includes the sentence "The owner can share the document with whomever she wishes." A pity they didn't read this forum.

And what's 'she' doing in this sentence?

That sentence is fine. "She" is the subject of the subordinate clause. The antecedent of "she" is "the owner". Also it's obvious whom is correct because it follows a preposition (always accusative, never nominative).

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Cool Breeze — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:34:07 GMT

Anonymous

Thank you so much for the thoughtful responses. One last question about my earlier example ("...guys like we/us"):

Can someone please explain why "like" is a preposition in that sentence and not a conjunction?

There are so many pages and sentences that I won't bother to find your example but I'll explain the difference anyway. Here are the examples of like used as a preposition Webster's Dictionary gives:

prep.
7.    in like manner with; similarly to; in the manner characteristic of: He works like a beaver.
8.    resembling (someone or something): He is just like his father. Your necklace is just like mine.
9.    characteristic of: It would be like him to forget our appointment.
10.    as if there is promise of; indicative of: It looks like rain.
11.    as if someone or something gives promise of being: She looks like a good prospect for the job.
12.    disposed or inclined to (usually prec. by feel): to feel like going to bed.
13.    similar or comparable to: There is nothing like a cold drink of water when one is thirsty. What was he like?
14.    (used correlatively to indicate similarity through relationship): like father, like son.
15.    (used to establish an intensifying, often facetious, comparison): sleeping like a log.
16.    as; such as: There are numerous hobbies you might enjoy, like photography or painting.
17.    like anything, Informal. very much; extremely; with great intensity: He wanted like anything to win.

As you can see, in none of the above cases is there a subject and a finite verb after like. A conjunction is normally followed by a subject (unless the subject is the same as in the previous clause and thus may have been omitted) and a finite verb. Examples:

He didn't come although I asked him. We went to the beach because the sun was out. If you work hard, you'll succeed. He tried hard but [he] failed.

The same dictionary gives these examples of like used as a conjunction:

âconj.
21. in the same way as; just as; as: It happened like you might expect it would.
22. as if: He acted like he was afraid.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Huevos — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:31:44 GMT

Avangi
But "Than" is not.

I wasn't using the "after-preposition rule" to support this construction. Use here is open to opinion. "She is taller than I" is presciptivist, whereas "she is taller than me" is the overwelming choice of the language's native speakers. The question is how deep rooted does a use have to become before conservative prescriptivists accept it as part of the language.

By the way which version is your King James of choice?

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Anonymous — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:02:05 GMT

cool breeze, huevos, and others:

Thank you so much for the thoughtful responses. One last question about my earlier example ("...guys like we/us"):

Can someone please explain why "like" is a preposition in that sentence and not a conjunction?

Like is one of those weird words. It can be a noun, verb, conjunction, preposition, cook, chief, and bottle washer.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Avangi — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:28:16 GMT

Huevos
"Like" is a preposition so follows that rule.

But "Than" is not.

We who are pretentious and supercilious salute you. Faux-prepositions, beware.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Huevos — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:58:34 GMT

Avangi
What might the implied verb be?

Avangi, I don't want to get into that with this sentence. For the reason why, read my point to Raen below. "Like" is a preposition so follows that rule.

But to give you an idea what I mean about implied verb...

She is taller than me.
She is taller than I am.

Some people say "She is taller than I" but my recommendation is to leave that construction for the pretentious and supercilious, (maybe I'm just too much of an Alfred P. Doolittle to use it).

Raen
So it's always "between you and me" no matter where this expression sits in a sentence?

"Between" is a preposition. Pronouns that follow prepositions are always in the accusative case, not nominative. It's a rule, not a matter of opinion. Here are some examples that wrongly use the nominative.

He wrote a book about she.

The girl passed between he and I.

The bullet passed through he.

The waiter spilt orange juice on she.

Everyone caught the train except I.

Their father ordered the meal for they.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Avangi — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:41:35 GMT

Raen
[Do you mean opinion different from one person to the next, or "one grammar book" to the next?

Language is constantly changing - especially English. Grammarians disagree constantly, as Huevos has said.

Consider the expression, "Between you and me. . . . " Both pronouns function as object of the preposition.

Little kids sometimes say, "Me and him went to the movies." Parents and teachers keep harping at them, "No! It's 'he and I.' Always say the other person first! 'He and I, You and I !' "

They eventually learn that "you and me" is bad English. So when they need to say "between you and me," they hypercorrect it to "between you and I," because the objective case sounds wrong to their ears.

When the majority of native speakers prefer an incorrect usage, grammarians respond. The usage board, like the US Supreme Court bending the Constitution, yields to the pressure.

Re: nominative and objective pronouns.......confusing!

Avangi — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:49:45 GMT

I'd say object of the preposition "like," which is certainly the popular version (like them, like us).

I think "such as" takes the nominative (such as they, such as we), but many would use objective (such as them, such as us).

- A.

"but", a preposition?

Raen — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:21:00 GMT

I thought it was a "conjunction", is it not?

Here is the text, a text that shows "noun infinitives" used in different ways, in which "but" is catagorized as a preposition:

The noun infinitive can be a subject (To eat is fun.); a direct object (I like to eat.); a predicate nominative (A fun thing is to eat.); an appositive (My hope, to travel, never happened.); an object of a preposition (I want nothing but to save.)

Any comments? Thanks.

Raen

Re: one of those who and one of whom

Avangi — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:08:53 GMT

"Who threw the stone?" (reply) "It is one of those who are angry." I don't think "one" is the subject of anything here. It's a predicate nominative, or "complement" of the verb "is." "It" is the subject of the sentence, and "who" is the subject of the relative clause, "who are angry." The relative clause modifies "those," which is object of the preposition "of." Those who are angry are a group of angry people, one of whom threw the stone. But you would have to rephrase the sentence in order to make "one" the subject.

"Nobody in this group is angry. It is one of those who is angry." (Note that "who" may be singular or plural.) This time, "one" is still the verb complement. "Who is angry" is still a relative clause. The chief difference between these two interpretations lies in the answer to the question, "In the relative clause, what does "who" refer to?" In the first interpretation it refers to "those." In the second one it refers to "one." But that doesn't entitle "those" and "one" to be called subjects.

Your sentence "It is one of whom are angry" has a couple of things wrong with it.

"One" is now the bona fide subject of the clause, "one of whom is angry." "Whom" is object of the preposition "of," but unfortunately it has nothing to refer to.

A group of people are partying in the next room, one of whom is angry. In this sentence, "whom" refers to "group."

Re one of those who / one of whom, the difference is often only a technicality. She decided to give it to one of those who love her. She decided to give it to one of those whom she loves.

The key lies in the subject and object of the clauses. In "who love her," "who" is the subject, "love" is the verb, and "her" is the object. In "whom she loves," "she" is the subject, "loves" is the verb, and "whom" is the object.

"Who" and "she" are nominative case, "whom" and "her" are objective case.

Best regards, - A.