Re: Everything happened

katsudon — Thu, 16 Jun 2005 04:51:24 GMT

Thanks Katsudon!
Is it also possible when a relative pronoun is followed by a noun phrase?

For instance,
"That is my brother John you think used to go out with your sister Mary."

Katsu: Yes, I think it may well be dropped in casual speech, Infinity. But one thing to remember is that in fast speech it may appear to have been dropped when in fact it wasn't. Some words in fast speech are unvoiced or close to unvoiced.

Remember also, that casual speech uses contractions, "That's my brother John ...". Remember too, that this is not a standard feature of English, which means that it doesn't happen all that often, as Jim noted.

I recommend to beginners that, in order to become accustomed to relative pronouns they don't actively seek to drop any of them. But it's vitally important to note, they should be aware of all styles and possibilities of English.

There are two important aspects to language, the active components, ie. the speech we use daily to communicate. These represent a relatively small part of language. The other part, which is vastly bigger, is our passive component. ESLs should endeavor to build up their passive component.

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Or
She is the best thing happened to me.

I am more interested in a descriptive approach of grammar, and how native English speakers decides on which cases it can be omitted.

Katsu: Yes, it could be dropped in this case in fast, casual speech. The 'rule' Jim mentioned is quite a strong feature of our language, Infinity. Object form relative pronouns are often dropped; there is a strong resistance within our innate grammars to avoid dropping subject position relative pronouns.

Perhaps it's more that we know intuitively when dropping one will alter the meaning of the sentence. WRT the example in this thread, the meaning would be compromised and so ENLs would studiously avoid dropping the relative.

Re: "There/Here is" with plural subject allowed?

eagle2l84 — Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:56:53 GMT

Hi,

it's me, Ralf, the starter of this thread. Thanks for your answers so far. A post in another thread pointed me to the "American Heritage - Book of English Usage", where I found this section:

According to the standard rule, when the pronoun there precedes a verb such as be, seem, or appear, the verb agrees in number with the following grammatical subject: There is a great Italian deli across the street. There are fabulous wildflowers in the hills. There seems to be a blueberry pie cooking in the kitchen. There seem to be a few trees between the green and me. But people often disregard this rule and use a singular verb with a plural subject, especially when speaking or when using the contraction thereâs. The Usage Panel dislikes this construction, however. Seventy-nine percent reject the sentence Thereâs only three things you need to know about this book. But when thereâs is followed by a compound subject whose first element is singular, the panel feels differently. Fifty-six percent of the Usage Panel accepts the sentence In each of us thereâs a dreamer and a realist, and 32 percent more accept it in informal usage. The panel is even more accepting of the sentence When you get to the stop light, thereâs a gas station on the left and a grocery store on the right; 58 percent accept it in formal usage, while 37 percent more accept it in informal usage. Although this usage would seem to violate the rules of subject and verb agreement, the attraction of the verb to the singular noun phrase following it is so strong that it is hard to avoid the construction entirely.

While this clarifies the usage for AmE, I still wonder how it used around the world.

Hoping for more to come,

cu

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Re: Everything happened

Re: "There/Here is" with plural subject allowed?