Search results for 'tag:Noun phrases' matching tag 'Noun phrases'

Re: Relative clause versus predicate nominative

CalifJim — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:06:55 GMT

The dealership that sold more cars eded up losing more money. =adjective clause

My trouble was that they had never been there before=predicate nominative (noun phrase)

Question: What type of pronoun is that in the second sentence? It's not a pronoun because it doesn't take the place of a noun. It's called a complementizer.
Question: Will a relative pronoun in an adjective clause always immediately follow the noun and modify that noun?No, but it usually does. Here are some exceptions.

The book the cover of which is green can be found next to the table under which the cat is lying.

The first which refers back to the book. The second which refers back to the table.

Question: Will the that in the predicate nominative (second sentence) always immediately follow a verb and modify the subject? If it's a predicate nominative, yes, it has to follow a form of some linking verb, usually the verb to be. Not always immediately, however:

My trouble was [most likely / almost certainly / undoubtedly] that they had never been there before.

Relative clause versus predicate nominative

Eddie88 — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:46:01 GMT

Hi,

1)

Question: A relative clause and adjective clause are the same thing, correct?

2)

The dealership that sold more cars eded up losing more money. =adjective clause

My trouble was that they had never been there before=predicate nominative (noun phrase)

Question: What type of pronoun is that in the second sentence?

Question: Will a relative pronoun in an adjective clause always immediately follow the noun and modify that noun?

Question: Will the that in the predicate nominative (second sentence) always immediately follow a verb and modify the subject?

Thanks.

Re: Object-subject-verb

CalifJim — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:12:53 GMT

Fronting the direct object is much more common in conversation than most people realize. It's definitely not restricted to writing.

I think people just start a sentence thinking the first noun phrase is going to be the subject, and then suddenly a different verb comes to mind than they expected, so they end up throwing in a subject for that verb and the first noun phrase that came out ends up being the object. (This is the thinking-on-the-fly theory.)

Or they may deliberately put the object first because it has more importance for them -- they're going to contrast it with something else, for example. X, but not Y. X now, Y later. That sort of thing. (All of your examples contain this feature.) (This is the contrast theory.)

The dirty dishes I'll do now, but [I'll do the laundry later. / the laundry I'll do later / the laundry can wait].

Thanksgiving I can just about handle, but Christmas drives me nuts.

I've got to get the main points of this essay down on paper; the introduction I can write later.

Re: Simple, short phrase question.

CalifJim — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 21:31:38 GMT

Eddie88
Understanding whether a verb is the main verb or not can help tell me if a group of words is a clause or phrase.

Subject (noun phrase):

understanding whether a verb is the main verb or not

[This subject breaks down into a clause:

Subject - implicit: I / my

Verb: understand(ing)

Direct object (noun phrase expressed as a clause, i.e., a "noun clause"): whether a verb is the main verb or not.]

Verbs:

Modal verb: can

Bare infinitve: help

Bare infinitive: tell

Indirect object (pronoun): me

Direct object (noun phrase expressed as a clause, i.e., "noun clause"): if a group of words is a clause or phrase

____

Noun phrase structures like whether a verb is the main verb or not and if a group of words is a clause or phrase are called embedded or indirect questions. The questions that underlie these two are: Is a verb the main verb or not? and Is a group of words a clause or phrase? whether and if can introduce embedded "yes/no" questions.

Re: Help please! Subordinate or main clause

CalifJim — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:22:59 GMT

Eddie88
The subject in this case has a subject and a verb, why is it not a clause?

A subject has to be a noun phrase, but this structure, called a fused relative structure, is a noun phrase that contains a (dependent) clause. Here is the derivation:

that thing (I can tell you that thing)

that (I can tell you that)

that (I can tell you which)

that (which I can tell you ____) [This is a demonstrative pronoun with a modifying (relative) dependent clause. All together, it's a noun phrase.]

that which I can tell you

(that which > what) [This is the 'fusing' part.]

what I can tell you

____

Eddie88
It cannot be a noun phrase as there is a verb present.

Your logic is not correct. The verb is part of the modifying clause. The whole subject (what I can tell you) is a noun phrase, as are all subjects. It so happens that there is a clause within this noun phrase (which I can tell you), and it contains a verb (tell), just as clauses do.

Eddie88
can the subject complement also be a noun clause

Technically, a subject complement is almost always a noun phrase, an adjective phrase, or a prepositional phrase. When a whole (dependent) clause acts as a noun phrase, it can be called a noun clause. (But it's a noun phrase at the same time, actually, because it fits in the sentence right where a noun phrase goes.)

___

Eddie88
Can one only have a linking verb joining two nouns...

No. This was answered above. After the linking verb you almost always have a noun phrase, an adjective phrase, or a prepositional phrase. But a noun phrase may of course be expressed as a clause, as described above.

Here are a few examples showing the sorts of things that can come after a linking verb.

This is an umbrella. (noun phrase)

The cake is very good. (adjective phrase)

The butter is on the table. (prepositional phrase)

The problem is that we ate too much. (noun phrase in the form of a dependent clause = 'a noun clause')

This is what happened. (noun phrase in the form of a fused relative structure)

This is too hot for me to eat. (adjective phrase containing a non-finite (dependent) clause for me to eat)

Re: Help please! Subordinate or main clause

CalifJim — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:27:31 GMT

Eddie88
The subject in this case has a subject and a verb, why is it not a clause?

Nobody said it was not a clause!

There are several bits of terminology that are confusing.

One set of terms applies to the individual words. 'house' is a noun. 'happy' is an adjective. 'quietly' is an adverb. And so on.

Another set of terms applies to groups of words that do not form complete thoughts or complete sentences, but which "go together". These are phrases: noun phrases, adjective phrases, verb phrases, and so on. 'in the corner' is a prepositional phrase. 'very unhappily' is an adverb phrase. 'the bird singing in that tree' is a noun phrase. 'what I did last summer' is a noun phrase. 'slept for ten hours' is a verb phrase. Phrases can have other phrases or clauses within them. The noun phrase 'the bird singing in that tree' contains the prepositional phrase 'in that tree', for example, and the verb phrase 'slept for ten hours' contains the prepositional phrase 'for ten hours'.

Another set of terms applies to the functions of phrases within clauses. The main terms that show function are words that show the function of noun phrases in a sentence. A noun phrase is almost always going to be one of these: a subject, a direct object, an indirect object, an object of a preposition, or a subject complement.

(Another term for a verb phrase is predicate. And, just to make it confusing, sometimes the term 'verb phrase' is applied only to groups consisting of consecutive verbs, not the objects that follow them.)

This means that the same group of words in a sentence can be labeled in more than one way. For example, anything that is a subject is also a noun phrase. Anything that is an object of a preposition is also a noun phrase. And so on.

Clauses almost always contain a verb. But on rare occasions the verb that is intended is so obvious that it is not stated; the word group is then often called a clause anyway. The verb may show tense ("be tensed", "be finite"), or the verb may not show tense ("be non-tensed", "be non-finite"). Depending on this feature, the clause is called a finite clause or a non-finite clause. Non-finite forms of the verb are gerunds, participles, and infinitives.

Independent clauses are those that can stand alone as complete sentences. These are either complete sentences or the clauses joined by coordinating conjunctions like and or but. All other clauses are dependent clauses. A non-finite clause can only be a dependent clause. But finite clauses can be dependent clauses as well.

Clauses can occur within phrases. These are all dependent clauses. Independent clauses are not embedded within phrases.

the man whom I saw walking down the street yesterday is a noun phrase, but it contains a dependent clause used as an adjective to modify the noun man.

into the house located across the street is a prepositional phrase, but it contains the noun phrase the house located across the street. The noun phrase contains the clause (which is) located across the street (also called a participial phrase). And across the street is also a prepositional phrase inside the larger prepositional phrase.

You have to think in terms of hierarchies and structures that are embedded inside of other structures.

Re: Help please! Subordinate or main clause

Eddie88 — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:45:48 GMT

Hi, I have just two sall questions from your detailed analysis. The questions are based on your analysis, which I have copied below.

Anaylsis of Ind. Clause #2:

Subject: what I can tell you

Verb: (Linking verb) is

Subject complement: (predicate nominative) that it was one day before my birthday

The subject in this case has a subject and a verb, why is it not a clause? The word What, what is it as this is preventing the group of words being a subject. It cannot be a noun phrase as there is a verb present. What is this group of words called, other than being the subject?

Secondly, can the subject complement also be a noun clause or can't one have a linking verb joining a a noun (which seems to be the whole of the subject???) to a noun clause?
Can one only have a linking verb joining two nouns...

Thanks.

Re: Help please! Subordinate or main clause

Eddie88 — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:44:35 GMT

Hi, I have just two sall questions from your detailed analysis. The questions are based on your analysis, which I have copied below.

Anaylsis of Ind. Clause #2:

Subject: what I can tell you

Verb: (Linking verb) is

Name the parts of this sentence please.

Eddie88 — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:13:42 GMT

Understanding whether a verb is the main verb or not can help tell me if a group of words is a clause or phrase.

Begins with a gerund...maybe a noun phrase too...ends with a subordinate clause...

I'm not too sure...

Thanks.

Re: Simple, short phrase question.

CalifJim — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 06:42:39 GMT

Eddie88
Are phrases words that are additional parts to a sentence (namely advectives or nouns) which are not constituents of the actual clause

No. Clauses are made up of phrases. The phrases of the clause are the constituents of the clause. Clauses generally have a subject, which is a noun phrase, and a predicate, which is a verb phrase, although sometimes these elements are understood. (They may be implicit rather than explicit). The verb phrase may contain, besides a verb (or more), one or more noun phrases to act as a direct object (or in some other function). Generally speaking, at the highest level of analysis of a sentence, all the words belong to one phrase or another, and all the phrases together make the clause (which is the whole sentence).

But phrases may contain clauses as well. Relative clauses, for example, act as adjective phrases. Noun phrases may contain adjective phrases within them. Verb phrases may contain adverb phrases and noun phrases within them, and so on. A single word can even be considered a phrase. Any of these phrases may also contain (lower-level) clauses within them.

The whole system is hierarchical. Everything tends to be embedded in everything else, so to speak! What is a phrase on one level of analysis can be a clause on another level.

Eddie88
1) How come 'He has hosted' is not an indep. clause? A subject exists and there is the auillary verb, which I thought helps the non-finite/verbal, hosted, become a verb. Or is it something to do with intransitive verbs where it the verbs needs an object for it to be grammatical?

It has nothing to do with transitivity considerations. the other parties he has hosted: he has hosted is not an independent clause because it is a dependent clause. It depends on the other parties. It acts as an adjective phrase to modify parties. It answers Which parties? Here the usual relative pronoun is omitted.

the other parties [that / which / ---] he has hosted comes from the other parties [he has hosted (those) other parties]

When the relative pronoun is omitted, it is implicit -- understood. This is called a "contact relative (pronoun)". It is actually missing! There is no word there! Its function is carried out simply by direct contact between the antecedent (the other parties) and the following words (he has hosted (the other parties)) The implicit relative pronoun is the direct object of has hosted, just as that or which would be, if it were explicitly stated.

Eddie88
2) Finally, the verbal hosted...How is it a verbal (can't stand as the main verb in a clause) if it can be the main verb in a clause, for example, 'He hosted the event'

It is the main verb of its clause. I would not call it a verbal. It's the main verb of its clause. See above: He hosted the other parties is understood.

_____

Maybe you should review whatever texts you have on the topic of relative clauses. These are clauses that act as adjectives on a higher level in the hierarchy of the sentence.

the water [that / which / ---] I drank is a noun phrase. Let's break it down into its parts, starting with the level of the whole noun phrase.

Determiner: the

Head noun: water

Adjective phrase = Relative clause: [that / which / ---] I drank

___

Analysis of the adjective phrase. (We're "down one level" here.) The adjective phrase IS a relative clause. [Some grammarians just say that the relative clause is an adjectival clause instead of bothering to call it an adjectival phrase. Or they just say that the clause modifies a noun without bothering to characterize it as adjectival.]

The relative clause starts with a relative pronoun: that, or which, or 'null' (the contact relative pronoun) and continues with the remainder of the relative clause, which contains a "gap" (____) where the relative pronoun came from before it was moved to the beginning of the clause.

the water [I drank the water] > the water [I drank ___] > the water [I drank that] > the water [that I drank].

the water [I drank the water] > the water [I drank ___] > the water [I drank which] > the water [which I drank].

the water [I drank the water] > the water [I drank ___] > the water [I drank ___] > the water [___ I drank].

In this case the gap is where the direct object goes. So the relative pronoun (that, which, or 'null') has the function of direct object.

Subject: Noun phrase : Personal pronoun: I

Verb: drank

Direct object: Relative pronoun: that, or which, or 'null'.

___

This explains three noun phrases. (Pick whichever you want; they all have the same structure.) the water that I drank, the water which I drank, the water I drank

A noun phrase can function as a subject, a subject complement (after a linking verb), or a direct object, or an object of a preposition, and so on. So the noun phrase the water that I drank can be placed in different sentences in different ways:

The water that I drank made me sick. [used as subject]

That water in the green glass was the water that I drank. [used as subject complement]

Miss Scarlet poured the water that I drank. [used as direct object]

I am glad that poison was not added to the water that I drank. [used as object of a preposition]

Note that the noun phrase contains a (relative) clause, and it is also contained within a larger clause in each case above.

P.S. Part of your frustration may be because not all writers use the terms ''phrase' and 'clause' (and others) completely consistently at all times, and you may run across many alternate technical terms that mean the same thing. For example, there may be other members of the forum who would not agree with my analyses, or who would use different terminology to describe the parts of the same sentences.