Search results for 'tag:Past perfect tag:Conversations' matching tags 'Past perfect' and 'Conversations'

Re: must be past perfect?

Marius Hancu — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:03:10 GMT

Finally the shoeshine was finished, and I said, 'It was nice talking to you,' when I suddenly realized that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me.

The fact that you want to change the above the way you propose only shows you really do not know the exact meaning of the above.

conversation: previous event, realized: current event

A change to:

Finally the shoeshine was finished, and I said, 'It was nice talking to you,' when I suddenly realized that his conversation was addressed to me.

would change this to:

conversation: current event, realized: current event, practically happening in parallel

This is possible, but not in this context, as it changes the sequence of actions. In the text, the shoeshine had been talking/conversing before the realization.

You're not exact in your sense of timing.

For the time being I'd strongly advise you to understand what's going on in the New York Times texts, only then to "correct" them.

Re: must be past perfect?

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 07:47:06 GMT

Thank you. Can I apply your line of reasoning to this too?

You wrote:

Again without more context, I think the last example doesn't require past perfect for the opposite, or inverse, reason: only Mr. Sweeney's most recent remark is referenced, not the entire conversation. It is a single event. "Was asking" is used instead of "had asked" or simply "asked" to emphasize that the question, unanswered, is still "hanging out there" - Mr. Sweeney is still waiting for his answer, so the "asking process" is in effect still taking place. If the musician were remembering a conversation that took place earlier in the day, than "had been asking" or "had asked" would be appropriate.

Can I apply your line of reasoning to this too? Why no past perfect here? The capturing process is still going on???

He ordered the police to capture them, but they were gone.

Why not this?

He ordered the police to capture them, but they had left.

Re: must be past perfect?

Delmobile — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:59:15 GMT

"he hadn't seen the article in almost half a century" - I would use past perfect here. The speaker is describing not a single occurrence but a long period during which he has not seen whatever it is.

Yesterday, I looked for Dapper Dan hair jelly at the store and didn't see it.

I haven't seen Dapper Dan brand for years now.

Yesterday, he said that he hadn't seen Dapper Dan for years.

I would also use past perfect in your second example. Without context, it sounds as though the narrator is referring to quite a bit of conversation, none of which has been addressed to him. Past perfect makes it clear that it is the whole conversation, not just the last remark, that is being described.

Again without more context, I think the last example doesn't require past perfect for the opposite, or inverse, reason: only Mr. Sweeney's most recent remark is referenced, not the entire conversation. It is a single event. "Was asking" is used instead of "had asked" or simply "asked" to emphasize that the question, unanswered, is still "hanging out there" - Mr. Sweeney is still waiting for his answer, so the "asking process" is in effect still taking place. If the musician were remembering a conversation that took place earlier in the day, than "had been asking" or "had asked" would be appropriate.

must be past perfect?

Anonymous — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:01:40 GMT

Hi,

I was looking at an article named "Metropolitan Diary" DATED October 16, 2000 by ENID NEMY from the New York Times and wonder if the past perfect tenses are absolutely required in some of the situations noted.

Passages from the article:

When he said he hadn't seen the item in almost half a century, the owner insisted he take a package without charge. -- To me, the past perfect tense was used in "he hadn't seen the item" since it is using the reported speech of "he say he didn't see the item in almost half a century."

"Finally the shoeshine was finished, and I said, 'It was nice talking to you,' when I suddenly realized that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me. He had been talking on his cellular phone the whole time. Needless to say, I was embarrassed. -- To me, the past perfect use as in "that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me" is good since it denotes the sequence of events as it being previous to the realizing of what happened but could this OK?
... , when I suddenly realized that his conversation wasn't addressed to me. Does it have to be a past perfect tense as Clive seemed to have said something like this rhetorically: If something occurred before something else, why not make it clear?

Then the light dawned and the musician realized trhat Mr. Sweeney was asking about the music and not inquiring about his profession. -- Why is there no need to change to passive past perfect like this since my reading of this is that the asking probably has occurred before Mr. Sweeney's realization -- why not make it passive past perfect here when the noted writer has used past perfect in a previous case although not in passive?? Then the light dawned and the musician realized that Mr. Sweeney had been asking about the music and not had been inquiring about his profession.

Re: Optional past perfect uses

CalifJim — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:12:30 GMT

1. I thought about what you said today and I am going to tell you differently than I had told (told -- OK?? OK. ) you at our last meeting.

2. I took the stuff you mailed home yesterday and found it had been damaged en route to here. I would not substitute the simple past here.

3. I was thinking about our conversation at our meeting yesterday and thought the comment you had made (made -- OK too?? OK. ) at the meeting before yesterday's was more palatable to my personal feelings than the one you made yesterday.

There is no "list of words or phrases" that make the past perfect optional.

Optional past perfect uses

Anonymous — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:26:28 GMT

Hi,

Can you tell me if the past perfect uses for the following are optional?

1. I thought about what you said today and I am going to tell you differently than I had told (told -- OK??) you at our last meeting.

2. I took the stuff you mailed home yesterday and found it had been damaged en route to here.

3. I was thinking about our conversation at our meeting yesterday and thought the comment you had made (made -- OK too??) at the meeting before yesterday's was more palatable to my personal feelings than the one you made yesterday.

I think what I am asking for is examples where uses of the past perfect are optional due to the existence of certain contexts or words or phrases. What possibly could they be?

Re: which vs of which

CalifJim — Wed, 21 May 2008 08:21:16 GMT

New2grammar
He'd only left her a note on the bedside table of which she had not understood the content.

This sentence could occur in a short story or novel. It would not likely occur in a casual conversation. Instead, it might be

He left her a note on the table beside the bed, but she didn't understand it.

Or if the past perfect is absolutely necessary in the context.

He'd left her a note on the table beside the bed, but she hadn't understood it.

Or if the "only" idea is absolutely required, a person might add only as in the original or might say

All he did was leave her a note on the table by the bed, but she didn't understand it.

The grammatical structures of ordinary everyday conversation are much simpler than those found in novels and essays.

Re: why past perfect here?

Goodman — Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:49:34 GMT

Nelson Mandela is a brave man who'd spent years in prison for his convictions.

We tend to pay little attention to the proper use of past perfect tense in everyday conversation and get away with simple past without much critique. We all knew Mandela had spent a major part of his life in confinement, 27 years to be exact, only to be released in 1990. This is one perfect example where past perfect should be used.

When there are two events linked together by time in the past, we should use Past Perf.

The duration of the preceding event takes Past P. simple past you are making a statement

|< ~~his imprisonment~~Ã | < his release| Ã the present time

Re: Just write english everyday!

Mister Micawber — Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:25:10 GMT

Both conversations are fine. The past perfect (Had you met Susana before? Yes, I had.) presumes context in which the previous meeting is emphasized.

Re: to have met

Clive — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:07:30 GMT

Hi,

I assume that you are talking about what to say when you are saying goodbye to someone, ie atthe end of a conversation.

Can I say I'm pleased that I met you instead of I'm pleased to have met you? Both are OK.

Which is more common? Much more common than either is 'It was nice to meet you', 'It was nice meeting you'. Please note that these are only said at the end of our first meeting with someone. If I see you again tomorrow, and then say 'goodbye', I wouldn't say this again. I'd say 'It was nice to see you (again)'

Is the past simple (I met) in the first example OK or should I have used the past perfect (I have met)? (<<< this is present perfect) See my comments above.

Best wishes, Clive