Search results for 'tag:Past perfect tag:Modals' matching tags 'Past perfect' and 'Modals'

tense questions

Anonymous — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:01:05 GMT

1. Do you think the past perfect tense is correct? I feel just a past tense is correct. I don't see a reason for the need for the past perfect tense. I thought what follows usually after a present perfect is a past tense, not a past perfect.

It has never played put the way I had intended.

2. I think the modal 'may' is not right. I think the phrase with it is denoting a past thought of his and to use 'amy" seem incorrect.

I am forced to concede that this may not have been the right one for my friends.

Re: Names of different tenses

Cool Breeze — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:58:41 GMT

Raen
He would have had completed the task if he had asked for help before he left work -- would have had completed used for had asked (past perfect) that happens before left (simple past)

Is it false then? "would have + (past perfect)" doesn't exist?

These terms may not be the same everywhere but the basic grammar of the language is the same all over the Anglo-Saxon world! Would have had completed is always wrong. Would is a defective/modal auxiliary and only an infinitive is possible after these auxiliaries. In this case the perfect infinitive must be used. There are two theoretical alternatives using your verbs. Either would have completed or would have had. All other combinations are wrong. The perfect infinitive consists of have + past participle. It is impossible to have another past participle right after a perfect infinitive. That is impossible in all Germanic languages, I believe.

Re: Conditional Sentence

CalifJim — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:26:19 GMT

eagerness
the day after it actually happened

Then it's wouldn't.

Though some variation is possible in the right situation, the typical groups of tenses that go together in the same sentence are:

Present perfect - Present - Future of the Present (will) - Most modal verbs, including can, may, must, should

Past Perfect - Past - Future of the Past (would) - could, should, might

Re: tense check

Clive — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:29:55 GMT

Hi again,

Thank you so much again.

Here,

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this? Yes,but does it have to be "will"? I thinK we can say, "I would be playing chess when he comes home," giving the element of conditional that the modal "would" imparts. On the second thought, it would go against the no. 1 conditional structure and that wouldn't be good, IMO. Then, again, what can I do to send a message of uncertainly by the use of a verb form, still keeping the word "will"? How about saying something like "I think maybe I will . . . '?

Always have to be this?

When Joe comes home an hour later, he will (probably) - not would?? - be waiting for me at the bus stop with an umbrella so I won't get wet.
Will -not would??- Joe wait for me with an umbrella when I arrived at the bus stop an hour later?
What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me.
Will - not would?? - he be going out with Jane if she asks him out?

Always have to be a "definite" "will"? How can I impart a conditional element (if it is possible) with a touch of hesitation to a sentence that has "will"?

If you say something like What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me, you are mixing conditional factual elements. Instead, you need to say one or other of the following.

What Joe will do when Jane comes back is beyond me.

What Joe would do if Jane comes back is beyond me.

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called. Yes, I think this situation would create that doubt on the part of a reader, but can you think of a sitution or two where it is OK, although not preferable, not to make it a past perfect but leave it as a past and leave to the readers to figure out the sequence involved? Not offhand, although I'm sure there are some. But why do you want to make the readers do the work?

Best wishes, Clive

Re: tense check

Anonymous — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:49:45 GMT

Thank you so much again.

Here,

Your correction:

"If John comes home about an hour later, he will be looking for me to play chess with him and when he finds out I am not there, he will be disappointed," I think. Do you have a question about this? Yes,but does it have to be "will"? I thinK we can say, "I would be playing chess when he comes home," giving the element of conditional that the modal "would" imparts. On the second thought, it would go against the no. 1 conditional structure and that wouldn't be good, IMO. Then, again, what can I do to send a message of uncertainly by the use of a verb form, still keeping the word "will"?

Always have to be this?

When Joe comes home an hour later, he will (probably) - not would?? - be waiting for me at the bus stop with an umbrella so I won't get wet.
Will -not would??- Joe wait for me with an umbrella when I arrived at the bus stop an hour later?
What will - not would??- Joe do when Jane comes back is beyond me.
Will - not would?? - he be going out with Jane if she asks him out?

Always have to be a "definite" "will"? How can I impart a conditional element (if it is possible) with a touch of hesitation to a sentence that has "will"?

2. My position: I don't think we need to use a past perfect in the if-clause; of course, it would be needed if I were to put the if part in the past and that would put the sequence very clear but this would work fine too, IMO. At best, it would leave readers to figure out the sequence by themselves or at worst, it would be considered wrong:

If I went shopping when Joe called, I would be in the chic district of Seoul, window-shopping for all those fabulous lastest-trend clothes.

If I went shopping when Joe called . . this sounds like scenario in which you went shopping after he called. Yes, I think this situation would create that doubt on the part of a reader, but can you think of a sitution or two where it is OK, although not preferable, not to make it a past perfect but leave it as a past and leave to the readers to figure out the sequence involved?

tense analysis

Anonymous — Fri, 02 May 2008 04:31:00 GMT

Hi,

For these sentences from the article, "Putting Pressure in Its Place", by Ruth Bell Graham, in ChristianitToday magazine, would please confirm my analysis?

I had no sooner gotten started when I got word that a Chinese pastor and his wife I had been permitted to call on in China had been reimprisoned by the antitheistic regime because of something I had said to them. I placed a call to a nearby office, only to have the rumor confirmed (later found false).

This is taking the storyline to the past -- with Mrs. Graham talking about things from the a past point of time. What I have difficulty with is what I see as inadequacy in the English language to properly indicate past before the "double-time" past. Let me try to explain what I mean by that:

Here in the copy of the quote:

1) I had no sooner gotten started 2) when I got word that a Chinese pastor and his wife 3) I had been permitted to call on in China 4) had been reimprisoned by the antitheistic regime because of something 5) I had said to them. I placed a call to a nearby office, only to have the rumor confirmed (later found false).

To me, No. 1's use of past perfect sets the action to the time before some event and no.2's use of past tense shows her getting word is not in the time a factor in the time line -- if it had been a factor, then she would have used a past perfect here too.

Nos 3 and 4 are inadequate in that what happened before what or what happened after what is not clear with two uses of past perfect, and this lack of differentiation is further exacerbated -- that is how I see it -- by one more use of past perfect, marked as no. 5.

I think Mrs. Graham's sentence doesn't concern with this differentiation either because she intended not to or could not, due to what I think it the absence of a tense or tenses to go double or triple back in time for an action or an event that took or happened.

The same observation can be made for the use of modal "would/could/might have been': The modals can take an action or event triple-back in time.

Re: the tense

Doll — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:57:58 GMT

Hello New Guest,

I really understand what you are looking for because when I was at intermediate level, I was questioning everything like you and interested in thinking every sentence in detail. Past perfect tense was my favourite.I questioned and thought about its usage for years because it wasn't an existing tense in my native language. I felt inefficient when I didn't use past perfect or had questions about it in my mind. To tell the truth, sometimes I still have. This is because I learn English as a foreign language and I don't have a native spaking environment key which will open the doors of questions so, it takes ,really, years to completely grab the real and accurate usage of something. This goes for present perfect tense and modals too. The thing you should do, if you care what I say, just to be patient. After years, I am sure, you will regard both tenses same even the past simple better in similar contexts as your original question.

One more thing, your thinking too much analytical on grammatical forms of the language may be an effect of your English teacher. You know, they do unnecessary exams and want you to find the right choice and want you make a discrimination between whether to use simple past or perfect though sometimes both can be used. To be frank, I still suffer from this. I am still too analytic.

Re: Easy but long...)))

Yankee — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:20:51 GMT

Hi Pres1dent

You should break up long posts such as this one into several short posts. That way it's much easier for other people to comment.

I've made suggestions. Some of the sentences in these exercises don't sound terribly natural, so there are also suggestions in places where there were no asterisks (**).

I. Grammar Exercises
1 Articles
1. *(The)* equipment of from Blake & Co is very good. They sell it to ** various different companies
2. Where are *the* newspapers? They are on *the* desk.
3. There is ** ~~much~~ a lot of built-in furniture in our kitchen. *The* furniture makes *the* kitchen comfortable.
4. We are interested in buying ** the/ - machines from British companies.
5. *The* tools of Blake & Co tools are of ** high quality.
6. We~~âve~~ received *~~the~~ an* enquiry for ** three machines ~~lately~~ recently.
7. ** Last month our manager went to St. Petersburg by train. He ~~went there by~~ took *an * express train. *The* train had no stops.
8. If you want to get accommodation(s) at *a *hotel in Nice in the summertime you must reserve *the* room in advance. ** Nice hotels are full during the summer ~~time~~.
9. The seller didnât agree to give us *a* discount as their goods were in *a* great demand at that price.
10. We are interested in buying ** compressors for *a* new shop in *~~the~~* a large plant in Siberia. *The* shop is already under construction and the customers requires the goods urgently, as they must complete the construction of the shop by the end of the year.

2 Prepositions
1. She is sitting *on at* the table and ~~speaking~~ talking *on* the phone. She is making an appointment on for Friday.
2. They met Mr. Black *in* his office. The meeting began at 10 oâclock and lasted ** ~~(for?)~~ two hours.
3. *The* other day Rossexport received an enquiry for the motors of Johanson & Sons.
4. The train will arrive with a delay ~~for~~ of 40 minutes. Will you go to the departure lounge and wait for the announcement?
5. -Can you give us a discount *for/on* a large order?
- As we have done a lot of business with you, we can give you a small discount.
- In that case, weâd like to have a discount of 7%.
6. The charge for a room in this hotel is not very high.
7. They offered to deliver the pumps *in* ~~(of?)~~ four lots of 12 pumps each in at regular intervals of 5 months. (at regular 5-month intervals)
8. Youâve reserved a single and a double room ~~for you~~ for two nights on the fourth floor. These are modern rooms with private baths. They donât face the street.
9. -Iâd like a suit for office wear.
-Try *on/-* this one in for size. (OR: Try this one on for size.)
10. The seller offered the goods *at* CIF terms and payment collection. (This sounds clunky. I'd just say this: The seller offered the goods CIF.)

3 Degrees of comparison
1. The Sony TV set is more expensive than the Akai TV set. Itâs one of the most expensive TV sets.
2. Are our cars as convenient as German cars? (In my opinion, reliable would be a more logical choice of words.)
3. This is the busiest airport Iâve ever seen.
4. I come later on Mondays ~~later~~ than on other days.
5. ~~*More often*~~ we give a discount to buyers most often if we have known them for a long time.

4Verb times
1. Now you *see* Mr. Black in his office. During the day he *looks* through English newspapers and *discusses* business matters. Now he is reading a letter. Later, he *is going to phone* the manager of the company.
2. -What model are you interested in?
-Model BC5 *meets* our requirement.
3. The fact *is* I sent you our offer last week. In my letter I asked you to study it and give us your answer but we havenât received it yet.
4. -*Will* the plane to Moscow leaves on time? /Will the plane to Moscow be leaving on time?
-There is a delay but it probably *wonât be* over 30 minutes
5. Good morning, Mr. Black. Iâm glad to see you. I havenât seen you since we met in London
6. How long *~~it takes~~* (will it take?) me to get there?
-Itâll take you about half an hour to get there at this time of the day. There is a lot of traffic now. Look, bus 79A *is coming.*
7. Have you discussed the terms of delivery yet?
8. Jack arrived at the theatre about 7 oâclock. Ten minutes later he was sitting in the stalls and watching the performance.
9. Rossexport started shipping the goods nine months after we *(had) signed* the contract. (Past perfect is OK, but not necessary.)
10. I donât know when our accountant ~~comes~~ will be back

5Reported speech It's often difficult to judge reported speech without also knowing what the direct speech was.

1. Mr. Black said it hadnât taken us? long to discuss the price. (It sounds as though the sentence need 'them' rather than 'us'.)
2. The office manager said you would go ~~on business~~ to London on business soon.
3. Mr. Black asked if Mr. Taylor was staying with us.
4. Mr. Black wants to know what discount Mr. Smith can give us(?).
5. Mr. Black said your prices were very high and they couldnât accept them.
6. Mr. Black asked who Mr. Brown was waiting for.
7. Mr. Black wanted to know if Nancy had translated the letter.
8. Mr. Black says to look through the quotation from Dunn & Co.
9. Mr. Black said not to send the fax to Smith & Co.
10. Mr. Black asked if their goods met Mr. Smithâs requirements.

6Modal verbs
1. Can I offer you a cup of tea?
2. -~~Must~~ Do I have to go to the office every day?
-No, you ~~mustnât~~ don't.
3. -~~May~~ Can I invite businessmen to the conference room?
-No, you ~~mustnât (or mightnât?)~~ can't. It ~~must~~ has to be cleaned.
4. When can you look through it?
5. -Why are you so late?
-Because I had to phone the British company.
6. -Why did Mr. Smith go to London last month?
-He was/had to sign a contract there.
7. If the manager doesnât have to stay late at the head office today, he will be able to meet Mr. Smith
8. We received your offer 5 days ago ~~wand~~ but we ~~couldnât~~ haven't been able to study it (yet).
9. Who can make good coffee?
10. You are to contact Black & Co next Monday.

Re: How to get rid of Past Perfect?

Bokeh — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:54:46 GMT

Anonymous wrote:
the first one is the one marked "1" with a modal 'would' that expresses an event in the past, encompassing an event before an event also; and the second marking point is the one marked "2" and with the past perfect tense 'had lined up'.

There is no switch in tense there. They are both past perfect. The difference between the two is that the former is passive voice conditional past perfect while the latter is plain old vanilla active voice past perfect.

Re: How to get rid of Past Perfect?

Anonymous — Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:13:41 GMT

Thank you, CalifJim.

I was looking at the Arkansas Weekly that is online and in it, an article under the name of "All Over the Map" written by Bob Grace, dated March 7, 2007, I saw this writing.

... It was all I could do but watch and pray for this not to happen.

Sure enough, right before the car waiting to turn into Burger King 1) would have been bashed in the rear, the elderly driver swerved to the right, directly toward Lady Liberty. At the last second, the women seemed to see the the Statue and quickly cut back slightly to the left before jumping the curb of the parking lot -- just past our Lady.

By now, some drivers 2) had lined up behind me, waiting for me to turn. Harrison was clear both ways, and as I collected myself and relaxed ...

For me, there are two transitional marking points: the first one is the one marked "1" with a modal 'would' that expresses an event in the past, encompassing an event before an event also; and the second marking point is the one marked "2" and with the past perfect tense 'had lined up'.

As you seemed to have noted in your response to the previous post, the shifting of tenses seemed to have been done in an 'artistry' manner, very much following the whims of the person, and all the shifting could have been done differently by a different person, assuming all are done in a grammatically correct way.