Search results for 'tag:Past tenses tag:Simple present' matching tags 'Past tenses' and 'Simple present'

Re: Present Perfect (americans)

Diamondrg — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:40:10 GMT

Hi, YSchneider. I am not a native speaker and this is indeed a tough grammar point for non-native speakers.

Here is an extract from CGEL*:

Did you lock the front door? [5]

in a domestic situation where it is known that the front door is locked at bedtime every night. In that case, [5] is more or less equivalent to Did you
lock the front door at bedtime? (Incidentally, in [5], "the" in "the front door" is another case of situational definiteness; cfS.Uff.)

--

The ATTITUDINAL PAST, used with verbs expressing volition or mental state, reflects the tentative attitude of the speaker, rather than past time.
In the following pairs, both the present and past tenses refer to a present state of mind, but the latter is somewhat more polite:

Do/Did you want to see me now?
I wonder/wondered if you could help us.

--

Where did you put my purse ? [ 1 ]
Where have you put my purse? [2]

The purpose of both of these questions may be to find the purse; but in [1] the speaker seems to ask the addressee to remember a past action; while in [2] the speaker apparently concentrates on the purse's present whereabouts. There are many such cases.

--

Leaving aside such virtual equivalences, we may now focus on the difference between the two constructions, contrasting the meanings of the simple past given in 4.14 with the following meanings of the simple present perfective:

(a) STATE LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT

That house has been empty for ages.
Have you known my sister for long?

(b) INDEFINITE EVENT(S) IN A PERIOD LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT

Have you (ever) been to Florence?
All our children have had measles.

(c) HABIT (ie recurrent event) IN A PERIOD LEADING UP TO THE PRESENT

Mr Terry has sung in this choir ever since he was a boy.
The province has suffered from disastrous floods throughout its history.

Of these meanings, (a) corresponds to the 'state past' use of the simple past, but differs from it in specifying that the state continues at least up to the present moment (cf: That house was empty for ages - but now it's been sold); (b) corresponds to the 'event past', but differs from it in that the past time in question is indefinite rather than definite (cf: Did you go to Florence (last summer) ?); (c) corresponds to the 'habitual past', but, as with (a), the period identified must continue up to the present.

Note In AmE there is a tendency to use the past tense in preference to the present perfective, especially for the indefinite past; eg: Did you ever go to Florence ? (c/4.13 Note lb], 4.22 Note [a ]).

--

Have you seen the Javanese Art Exhibition? [yet]
Did you see the Javanese Art Exhibition? [when it was here]

The first of these implies that the Exhibition is still open; the second that the Exhibition has finished. From this concern with a period still existing at the present time, it is only a short step to the second implication often associated with the present perfective, viz that the event is recent. The simple present perfective is often used to report a piece of news:

_., , > the news? The president has resigned.

Because of this connotation of recency, B's reply in the following exchange must be considered absurdly inappropriate:

A: Has the postman left any letters? B: Yes, he did six months ago.

Since postmen in general deliver letters daily, the implicit time zone in this case would be no longer than a day.

[Note] In AmE, the simple past is often preferred to the present perfective for the variants of the indefinite past discussed in this section. Compare [6 ], for example, with Did the children come home yet? <esp AmE). Other AmE examples are: I just came back; You told me already; and without an adverb: /*m tired -1 had a long day.

* A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (Quirk et al.]

Re: Present Perfect (americans)

Yankee — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:04:32 GMT

As is the case with British English, whether an American uses the simple present or the present perfect often simply depends on how the speaker is viewing a past activity. That said, when either tense is possible according to the "usual rules", I think there is a noticeable tendency for Americans to choose the simple past tense more often than our British cousins would. There are also a few well-known examples of American usage that probably drive some (but hopefully not all) Brits crazy. For example: "Did you eat yet?" and "I already did that."

The problem with quite a few of your sentences is that there isn't enough context in the sentences themselves (they're very short) and/or not enough broader context with them to say for sure which tense might be more likely in AmE. In a few of your sentences, you haven't really given what I think would be typical wording, so there really isn't much point in trying to say which tense would be used. For example, I can't imagine a doctor asking a patient in his office whether or not the patient had broken his/her arm. And I doubt that the sentences "I've changed my address!" and "I changed my address!" would be used to tell someone I had moved to a new address, so I would need more context there before I could give further input.

It may well be the case (but I don't know this for a fact) that in some cases where a Brit would definitely use the present perfect because there is an effect on the present, we might choose instead to use the simple present tense. If I take your broken arm example, an American might choose to say "I broke my arm last week" (focus on the past event) or "My arm is broken (focus on the current state -- the bone is not yet healed).

Maybe someone else will have some input for you.

Re: reported speech?

Yoong Liat — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 17:52:12 GMT

In reported speech you can use the simple present tense after a verb in the past tense if what follows is still true.

3. He told her she has to bring her homework tomorrow. (Fine. If he told her today, then it is correct to say that she has to bring her homework tomorrow.)

All the other sentences are correctly reported except the one below.

He told her she had to bring her homework the day after. (I don't think 'the day after' is correct.)

The sentence should be reported as: He told her she had to bring her homework the next/following day. (This relates to the past.)

Re: taking out the windows of the car

Goodman — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:46:40 GMT

Hi Ant222,

My English skill is not in the âgrammarianâ class but I will give it my best attempt to explain it. It may not may not be agreeable with the experts.

In many instances during casual conversations, we can bet by with simple past tense and no one will flag you for errors. However, to be grammatically correct, the right tense should be followed and observed consistently. Besides using present perfect to connect events from the past to present, sometimes, we will see past reference combined into a present perfect structure. i.e.

John seems to have forgotten who helped him 2 years ago when his lost his job. This is perfectly legal.

General simple present statement with timeless reference.

I have never seen movies as bad as this one!

I have tried many times to quit smoking but failed.

With time reference, past to present:

Jane has changed 3 jobs since the beginning of this year.

She hasnât made any car payment for the past 6 months.

If you already understood the above, just disregard my post.

Re: I thought a spider is/was an insect

Pter — Thu, 08 May 2008 23:53:09 GMT

Sorry to have confused all of you. My statement

"I thought *only* simple present was correct, but I thought wrong. I now know that both present tense and past tense are possible"

was only referring to the sample sentence given by Jim

(a) "My professor said that spiders are (were also possible) insects!" <-- reported speech

not the original sentence

(b) "I thought a spider was an insect" <-- not reported speech

My thoughts in my last post were presented in two paragraphs, the first one was about (b) and the second one was about (a).

Regarding the "universal falsehood", yes, I knew you were talking about just what the speaker believed, not necessarily the reality. You used this phrase just because I had been using "universal truths" to describe something that was in fact believed to be false.

Now I think I understand all of what you explained including Barbara's second post, but I am not sure you understand what I said. Thanks again.

Re: I thought a spider is/was an insect

Grammar Geek — Thu, 08 May 2008 18:25:07 GMT

If you'll note the time of post, Jim and I posted a minute apart, clearly writing our posts at the same time.

I thought *only* simple present is (oops, should be was) correct, but I thought wrong. I now know that both present tense and past tense are possible

NO! "I thought..." REQUIRES past. Present tense is NOT possible!

It doesn't have to turn out to be false.It can turn out that what you thought came true.

A: You're so smart to have brought your umbrella. Can I share it?
B: Of course you can. Even though the forecast didn't call for it, I thought it might rain. I'm sure glad I brought it!

A: Why didn't you want to date me in high school?
B: Back when we were in high school, I thought you were a jerk. Now I KNOW you are a jerk. Go away.

You avoid the confusion by always using the past after "I thought," (unless it's an internal dialogue as Jim suggests above, which is NOT part of typical narrative writing).

Re: I thought a spider is/was an insect

Pter — Thu, 08 May 2008 18:14:43 GMT

I thought *only* simple present is (oops, should be was) correct, but I thought wrong. I now know that both present tense and past tense are possible. Sorry for the confusion.

I always have problems on this. How to avoid this confusion?

When I say "I thought", does it mean what "I thought" has to be false?

Re: I thought a spider is/was an insect

Pter — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:53:37 GMT

Thank you very much indeed, Jim. That's a great explanation. You cleared all my doubts. Forgive me for thinking out loud as I hope you can correct me if I am still making any mistakes.

Firstly, I didn't notice that it was (can only use "was", "is" not possible?) not reported speech! And universal falsehood. What a phrase! This is important because we are not talking about something that is always true. As a result, we can only use the past tense in sentences starting with "I thought it was". The "was" is not the result of backshifting. It is used instead to indicate that the believe was hold true in the past but is now found to be false.

Secondly, both present tense and past tense are possible in reported speech when talking about universal truths or things that still hold true at the present moment. This has been confusing me for a long time because I was taught to use the simple present in such cases and I thought *only* simple present is correct. It has been troubling me because sometimes I saw past tense being used and I always wondered why.

While I was waiting eagerly for your reply, I opened Randolph Quirk's A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language, which I recently bought from Amazon. It doesn't mention the first point (or I just couldn't find it), but on the second point, it totally agrees with you!

You are really a great teacher!

Now, one last question. Please forgive my insatiable desire to get to every details. While both present tense and past tense are acceptable for the sample sentences you used, which of them sounds more natural? Are the ones inside the brackets less natural / common?

EDIT: I didn't see Barbara's post when I replied. Thank you very much Barbara. It's obvious that you also didn't see Jim's post when you replied. I am so glad to also get the confirmation from you. Once again, I can take your answer to the bank! I also want to thank Goodman, N2G and Marius for all your insights you have given me!

Re: can you say

New2grammar — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:04:15 GMT

Hi Avangi, I wonder why you use the simple present when the verb is in the past tense "opened". Could you explain? My guess is "don't you see the opened window" instead of "don't you see I opened it" which is wrong and requires "didn't".

Re: be/become

Yankee — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:39:49 GMT

John becomes ill. --> simple present tense. Perhaps John gets sick every time he rides a roller coaster, for example.

John became ill. --> simple past tense. Perhaps John got sick last Monday, for example.