Search results for 'tag:Plurals tag:Abbreviations' matching tags 'Plurals' and 'Abbreviations'

Re: Plurals of abbreviations - 1990's or 1990s

Takoyaki-English — Sun, 04 May 2008 04:03:41 GMT

Hello.

1) 1990s
2) 1990's
Both are acceptable and often used, aren't they? The first one is my preference, though.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/weekly/ed/ed20070526a1.htm
"... in the early 1990s..."
I think that 1990, 1991 and 1992 are called the early 1990s. Do "the early 1990s" include "1993" and "1994"?

Re: Plurals of abbreviations - 1990's or 1990s

Grammar Geek — Sun, 04 May 2008 01:31:42 GMT

I've edited my prior post for clarity. I though it was clear by saying "the 1990s'" what I meant but apparently not.

I don't think we're disageeing at all here - do you?

Re: Plurals of abbreviations - 1990's or 1990s

Anonymous — Sat, 03 May 2008 17:48:27 GMT

Actually, the possessive would be "ninteen ninties'" because you're talking about a possessive of the plural form, the decade is constituted by all of the years in total. So the abbreviated form of the possessive should be 1990s' - with the apostrophe after the s, just like if you were talking about the possessive of any plural. No?

Re: Plurals of abbreviations - 1990's or 1990s

Grammar Geek — Sat, 03 May 2008 15:30:46 GMT

Hello fooladder, welcome to the forums.

Obvioulsy, with the possessive, you use the apostrophe.

It was a popular tune sometime back in the early 1990s.

He has 1990's biggest hit record. (Obviously, a possessive.) EDITED for clarity -by this I mean the one year, 1990.

He was the 1990s' most popular enteratiner. (Also possessive.) EDITED for clairty - by this I mean the decade of the 1990s.

Re: Plurals of abbreviations - 1990's or 1990s

fooladder — Sat, 03 May 2008 04:29:02 GMT

MrPedantic
(I would prefer 1990s.)

Unless ofcourse when used as a possisive. In which case it becomes troubling to distinguish between some that was from 1990 or from the 1990s.

Re: Plurals of abbreviations - 1990's or 1990s

Anonymous — Fri, 02 May 2008 22:33:21 GMT

I think the p's and q's argument is most salient here. The apostrophe is used for the sake of clarity. While conventionally used for the possessive, the apostrophe is also used to indicate vernacular omissions and contractions, such as in the cases of "Ol' Dirty ***" or "N'awlins." This understadning of the usage of apostrophes is important for thinking about the 1990s/1990's problem. If you were to spell out the actual words 1990 and 1990s/1990's, you get the words "nineteen ninety" and "nineteen nineties." The difference between these two words is a "y" and an "ies." The possessive spelling of 1990's would be "nineteen ninety's," the plural, "nineteen nineties." The abbreviated representation of the possessive should clearly be 1990's, but what about the plural? One could argue that the apostrophe in this case stands for the omission of the "ie" in "nineteen nineties"

Re: Plural of s = s'es?

Pter — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:43:31 GMT

Yoong Liat
2a. There are two s's in the sentence. (The modern tendency is to add -s to pluralise a word. However, the -'s is still common. I would write s's because ss looks odd.)
2b. There are two PSs in the meeting. (I think either PSs or PS's is fine although I prefer the latter. )

Thanks again, Yoong Liat. I think this is not a matter of right or wrong, but just a matter of style. Many people still use the apostrophe. In fact, if the abbreviation has to be in lower case (I can't think of such a situation yet), I would also use the apostrophe. Therefore, I would write MPs, but mp's. I won't write mps because the s could be confused as part of the abbreviation.

Yoong Liat
In addition, how should they be pronounced? (Pronounce as in 1a and 1b)

Thanks. That's where I am confused. I thought the pronunciation need to match the spelling and therefore "es". Now I know that this is not necessary. I just checked my pronouncing dictionary and surprised to find that it lists all the pronunciations of the plurals of all the 26 alphabets. The plural of s is s's, and the pronunciation is /esiz/. I should have checked that dictionary earlier.

Yoong Liat
PS I have never seen P.SS. or p.ss. My copy of Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary does not have such an entry nor does any other dictionary I checked. (Maybe yours is not the latest edition.)

Seems that we are talking about different dictionaries instead of different versions. The name on the page you quoted does not have "Webster's". Anyway, why we need a plural for PS? A postscript is a short remark. Although it is possible that the "short" remark is not that short and may have more than one paragraph, it is still one short remark. Two paragraphs don't make it two postscripts. I was told that an additional PS added after the original PS is PPS - Post-Postscript.

Re: Plural of s = s'es?

Pter — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:52:02 GMT

Sorry Yoong Liat, I think I didn't made it clear. The abbreviation of PS was made up arbitrarily. I didn't mean postscript. I could have used anything like BS, CS, DS, etc. in my question.

Regarding the apostrophe for abbreviations, let me quote some of the references I've read:

The Columbia Guide to Standard American English
http://www.bartleby.com/68/50/4650.html

usually add -s: two Xs, Ph.D.s, MIAs, 1990s, the â20s. Use an apostrophe only when you need it to prevent confusion: Mississippi has four iâs. He got Aâs in both courses.

The Economist Style Guide
http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/index.cfm?page=673905

Thus IOUs, MPs' salaries, SDRs, etc.

Times Online Style Guide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/tools_and_services/specials/style_guide/article986718.ece

An apostrophe should be used to indicate the plural of single letters - p's and q's.
(Note that it doesn't say an apostrophe should be used for plurals of abbreviations.)

Guide to Grammar and Style by Jack Lynch
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/a.html

Apostrophes are sometimes used to make acronyms or other abbreviations plural (another matter of a local house style). My preference: don't use apostrophes to make abbreviations plural â not "They took their SAT's," but "They took their SATs." The only exception is when having no apostrophe might be confusing: "Two As" is ambiguous (it might be read as the word as); make it "Two A's."

Back to my original question. What I would like to ask is whether I should use "s" or "es", i.e. the choice of

1a. There are two s'es in the sentence.
1b. There are two PSes in the meeting.

OR

2a. There are two s's in the sentence.
2b. There are two PSs in the meeting.

In addition, how should they be pronounced?

PS I have never seen P.SS. or p.ss. My copy of Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary does not have such an entry nor does any other dictionary I checked.

Re: Plural of s = s'es?

Yoong Liat — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:56:16 GMT

Pter
Hi Yoong Liat,

May I ask why you think it should be s's and PS's?

For the second one, style guides I read do not recommend using apostrophe for plurals of abbreviations although some people do use them.

What I've found surprises me. It seems that I was taught wrongly.

Encarta Dictionary

P.SS. or p.ss abbr Definition: postscripts

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This P.SS. postscripts.Also, p.ss.

Results

pss was found in the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary at the entries listed below.Â· postscript Â· PS

Re: Plural of s = s'es?

Pter — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 10:43:38 GMT

Hi Yoong Liat,

May I ask why you think it should be s's and PS's?

For the second one, style guides I read do not recommend using apostrophe for plurals of abbreviations although some people do use them.