Search results for 'tag:Possessives tag:Genitives' matching tags 'Possessives' and 'Genitives'

Re: a genitive of classification?

Anonymous — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:46:42 GMT

I believe that the response provided to you is incorrect. A "girls school" and a "girls' school" is not the same. In the first instance, "girls" is used as an adjective to describe that the school only has female students; in the second, it is a possessive use of an apostrophe. The second would be used maybe in such an example as follows:

Woman 1: I just started my new job. I'm working at that new school downtown.
Woman 2: Oh really, that is my girls' school! (implying, that's is where my girls attend school).

Adjectival plurals take an "s" only to clarify syntax.

Re: Lack of emphasis on NPs in ESL

Forbes — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:59:28 GMT

Much linguistic analysis is neither intended for nor useful as a language teaching aid. It all depends on what language you know and what language you are learning.

Leaving aside pronouns, in English you do not need to change the ending of a noun according to whether it is the subject or object of a sentence. The same applies to French. So, when you teach French to English speakers, or English to French speakers, there is no need to go into long explanations about "subject and objects". When you teach Russian on the other hand you are not going to get very far without the pupils having a conscious understanding (they will of course already have an unconscious understanding) of "subjects and objects".

With possession however it is different. In English we have the possessive "s". So a French speaker needs to think a bit about the idea of possession when he learns English. However, this is not necessary if he is learning Spanish; he just needs to know the Spanish for "of". When the pupil advances he will find forms such as "house furnishings" and when he does he can consider whether "house" is an s-less genitive or a noun used attributively, but even then, I am not sure it is particularly helpful. What is important is that the pupil gets to know that in English nouns can be used in ways that they cannot be or are rarely used in French; they can be "piled up" as in North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which in French has to be "The Treaty of the Atlantic of the North". Whether an analysis shows that in such a case North, Atlantic and Treaty may not in fact be nouns does not really help.

Re: Grammar point, please help clarify this

Huevos — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:50:05 GMT

Raen
1. As far as I know, all 3 articles are "always" followed by a noun and/or adjective+noun. Why are they labeled as "adjectives" when coming before a noun or adjective+noun? Why not just call them adjectives to begin with? and why can't they stand as their original identity which is "articles".

Here's what Wikipedia says: An article is a word that combines with a noun to indicate the type of reference being made by the noun. The three main articles in the English language are the, an and a. It is sometimes wondered which part of speech articles belong to. Despite much speculation, articles are adjectives, as they do describe nouns; Linguists place them in a different category, that of determiners.

Raen
2. "my, your, our, their" are always adjective. A layman would say why not the other possessive pronouns: "her, his, her, its...". What's so special abut the first 4?

Wikipedia says no on this: Depending on the theory the grammar subscribes to, English "possessive adjectives" are determiners or pronouns: possessive determiners,[1] possessive pronouns,[2] dependent genitive pronouns,[3] weak possessive pronouns,[4] and so forth. They are not adjectives, because they can be substituted for and cannot co-occur with another determiner such as an article or a demonstrative.

So the answer to your question: "So would you say this particular grammar point is widely accepted by native-speakers and/or linguistic community?", is no.

Re: gerund or verbal noun with an article?

Cool Breeze — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:35:17 GMT

Crokey
how do you feel about possessives before a gerund? "John's singing bothered me". You are constantly told that the possessive should be used before a gerund(unless you are saying something weird and you wish to emphasise the subject of the gerund).

I have given my opinion in an earlier post. Page 1 of this thread offers you a link to it (subject of gerund). As the gerund fluctuates between being a noun and a verb and resembles both to some extent, it stands to reason that a genitive is often possible before it and so is an adjectival attribute - at least in your example.

I don't really care what the ing-form is called in each case. I'm not obsessed with terminology. If anyone thinks the gerund is a complete noun, he should explain why the gerund can have a passive form:

He enjoys being seen in my company.

I would like to see the passive forms of other nouns, like a girl or courage, for example.

Re: the possessive 's or of+noun

Cool Breeze — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:20:55 GMT

The s-genitive is usually less emphatic:

William Shakespeare's Complete Works

The Complete Works of William Shakespeare

Both are correct but the one with "of" sounds much more convincing and would be the likely choice for the title of a series of books. In many cases the choice is simply a matter of what is usually said and thus it tends to sound more idiomatic.

Re: Possessive of a proper name

Cool Breeze — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:37:15 GMT

Anonymous
Please advise re the cat which belongs to Grace. Because Grace ends with an /s/ sound I wonder if it Is Grace's cat? Or Grace' cat?

I agree with Yankee. Yet, it must be said that there is a tendency among today's grammarians to standardize the often entangled genitive of English. That may deprive English of some of its most fascinating ways to denote possession. This charming jumble wouldn't be there if a Language Academy had had its say about it a few centuries ago. Here are a few examples from Otto Jespersen's Essentials of English Grammar:

"Note especially for conscience' sake, for goodness' sake (on account of the following s); before sake the s is also sometimes left out, even if the word does not in itself end in s: for brevity sake, for fashion sake."

Re: hyphen?

Mister Micawber — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:57:57 GMT

.
1. the genitive-equals-possessive misunderstanding -- Yes
2. the University of Florida curriculum designer -- Yes

But what about these?-- These are hard to deal with, since the adjective cluster has been extended unnaturally. I suggest:
Afternoon return buses back to Seoul
Early morning departures back to Seoul

Re: hyphen?

Anonymous — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:46:21 GMT

Thank you very much.

I think these two are properly punctuated:
1. the genitive-equals-possessive misunderstanding
2. the University of *** curriculum designer -- no hyphen since "University of ***" is a proper name and linking with hyphens woud be inappropriate, if not wrong.
But what about these?
Afternoon return bus rides back to Seoul
Early morning departure rides back to Seoul

GENITIVE

Anonymous — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:08:28 GMT

Hi,
It seems to have been noted that there are these three types of genitives among others:
1) genitive of classification
2) genitive of purpose
3) genitive of possession

What I have trouble is with no. 1. and 2. Where does this belong?
a men's toilet
This doesn't seem so much different from the form:
a teachers' seminar
But the first one merely classifies or notes the purpose of the place -- a place for men
Then again, the second one can be said to do the same thing -- decribe what the seminar is for (for teachers)

Then, it has been said if an adjective is there for the purpose of describing, a non-possessive form should be used.
a worker attendance sheet

Which one can be used here?
1) They had to cut workers' pay more to the level mandated /stipulated in the contract.
2) They had to cut the worker pay more to the level mandated /stipulated in the contract.

Re: Grammar rules - check for correctness - a kind teacher please :)

Angle1 — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:30:38 GMT

Here are some examples

The main point is to explain the correct answer
The sentences are little-bit childisch ;they are some modified sentences. I am afraid that my explanations seems to be a little childisch, too. So please help me how to turn it into the right explanation.

Mary was real angry because Jack didnÂ´t show up

Real >> really - we use an adverb to determine the adjective

Fewer of the passangers is sick today

Fewer >> One - the verb is refers to singular, so we need to use singular pronoun

I asked my brother whom was on the phone

Whom >> who â Whom i sused in object case and with pronouns â we need a subject for the verb in the second clause

Jorge doesnÂ´t have no bullets in his rifle

No >> any - we should avoid double negation in written English. We could use either has + no or negation + any

I am just a little confused whether or not to go on exam.

Whether to be or not to be â I know how it should be, but I cannot explain it :/

Having be a dancer myself, I have excellent posture

Having be >> beeing â but how to explain it ???

I never did like these kind of exercises

These >> that â but could it be also this if I were pointing at it?

Kind is singular, so we need a singular demostrative pronoun

You telling the truth is ..

You >> your â telling is a gerund, gerunds are used like nouns. We need a possessive pronoun

The bakery depends on meal beeing delivered without delay

Meal >> mealÂ´s â beeing is a gerund, and meal refers to this gerund. We need to use a genitive form with âÂ´sâ