Re: spatial prepositions

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:00:15 GMT

Ant is correct. Gramatically and in general conversational English the use these prepositions are dependant more on the speakers point of view (or imagined point of view) than entrances, roads, etc.

However, mostly you have it correct:

1. Yes. If the bank and hotel stand next to each other you would be correct and safely understood to say 'next to' or 'beside' regardless of the position of the doors. And yes, 'next to' and 'beside' can be switched safely.

2. Yes, and no... in the case of the zoo and police station being on different sides of the street with doors facing one another, Yes. The case of the doors facing one another on the same side of the street could be correct, although you would have to be standing between the buildings (or be describing a situation where you would be between them - for example if you gave directions how to get to the zoo door, you could then say the police station was opposite; but not until you have described how to get to the zoo entrance!). in the case of doors not facing but on either sides of the street - generally you would be safe to say opposite, as long as your point of view (or imagined point of view) is the street between the buildings.

3. in front of and behind are, more than the other words, VERY dependant on point of view. to say the Zoo is behind the post office you must be able to imagine a straight line from your point of view (or imagined point of view, or anticipated future point of view) to the Post office then the Zoo. This applies also if you were to say the Zoo is behind the Post office.

the point of view thing could be confusing, if the post office is in front of the bank from the position of the entrance to the post office. The bank could still be described as behind the post office (and the post office still described as in front of the bank) from 5 miles away on the same street if you were giving directions. This is because it is anticipated that the person asking for directions would reach the entrance to the post office first before looking behind it for the bank

'In back of' is wrong gramatically and would never be used by a native speaker - although i am sure it would be understood if you did use it by mistake :-) 'to the rear of' could be used if you like, although most people would simply say 'behind'. 'Towards the back of' is correct gramatically but has a slightly different meaning, it tends to mean inside the building. For example 'the help desk is towards the back of the post office' would indicate that you could find the help desk inside the post office building but far away from the entrance door.

Re: Maj - First question (Other than that)

wumanfu — Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:29:41 GMT

Hi, this is my first post to the group. Iâve just pasted information from Pocket Fowler's Modern English Usage. To be quite frank, I donât really understand these definitions fully but I hope the information is useful to you. So, regarding the words
1 Than
2 that
1 Than is normally used to introduce the second element in a comparison, and acts either as a conjunction (He is older than I am) or as a preposition (He
is older than me). In uses such as He is older than I, than is normally regarded as a conjunction with the verb following I understood, but in spoken English
at least the more usual choice is the type He is older than me.
2 that is a word with many roles, and plays a major part in English sentence structure. The following are its main grammatical functions:

DEMONSTRATIVE PRONOUN: That was what I meant

DEMONSTRATIVE ADJECTIVE: Why did you take that picture of me?

DEMONSTRATIVE ADVERB: I was that angry / It didn't hurt that much

RELATIVE PRONOUN: It was not the drug that had done it

CONJUNCTION: He had assumed that we would want to see him (1) As a demonstrative pronoun and adjective, that normally refers to something already mentioned
or known: (pronoun) She had not meant it so, but it could have been read like that / How the hell did you manage that? / The witnesses, if they could be
called that, continued to repeat that they knew nothing / (adjective) If I were you, I would keep an eye on that young man / It wasn't a nature reserve,
that Ark of yours. There are also a number of familiar idiomatic or formulaic uses: Something worth a lot of money, that's for sure / She had a small,
pretty face, I'll give you that / She cleared her throat to speak but left it at that / I just wanted to see her, that's all. (2) Its use as a demonstrative
adverb equivalent to so or very (or so very) dates from the 15c and has been slipping in and out of standard usage ever since. In current English it is
regarded as informal in both positive and negative contexts:

âShut up,â says Claudia â¦ âIt's not that funnyââDavid Lodge, 1988 / You and your brother, you're not really that alike, are you?âEncounter, 1989. In other
contexts, however, it verges on the formal or at least neutral:

The questioning attitude that comes naturally at student age is not that easily abolishedâListener, 1987. (3) As a relative pronoun, that becomes an alternative
to which (and occasionally who). Although they are often interchangeable, there are some uses that are peculiar to each: (a) When that is used it normally
introduces a so-called ârestrictiveâ clause, which defines or gives essential (rather than additional) information about the noun or noun phrase that comes
before: the pen that my father bought for me / the pen that is over on the table/ (in each case the that-clause defines which pen is meant). (See further
at
RELATIVE CLAUSES).
In these cases the that-clause normally follows on without a comma. Which can also be used in these examples, but in conversational English that is more
usual, and in some cases it is possible to omit the relative pronoun altogether and say the pen my father bought for me. That can also replace who (or
whom), especially when the reference is non-specific, as in The person that I saw was definitely a woman, and when there are two antecedents, one inanimate
and the other human: It was the drug and not her brother that had upset her. (b) That is also more idiomatic than which in a number of cases: (1) when
which already occurs earlier in the sentence in another role (Which is the house that you bought?), (2) after indefinite pronouns such as anything, everything,
nothing, and something (There is something that I forgot to mention), and (3) after a construction with the impersonal it (It is the new one that we want).
When that is the object of the verb in its clause, it is regularly omitted, especially in speech (There is something I forgot to mention). (c) Which, not
that, has to be used in so-called non-restrictive clauses which give additional rather than essential information: A new edition of the book, which has
taken ten years to write, will be published this week. Which is also used when a preposition precedes it (Is this the book to which you are referring?);
in a corresponding construction with that, the preposition has to come at the end (Is this the book that you are referring to? or Is this the book you
are referring to?). (4) That is used as a conjunction to introduce a subordinate clause, principally after verbs of saying, feeling, believing, knowing,
learning, etc.: The President admitted that he had lied / We would hate to think that they were corrupting you / I understand that you wanted to see me.
A that-clause of this type can also occur after the impersonal it: It was natural that they should think so. Normally the conjunction that can be omitted,
especially in speech: I understand you wanted to see me / It was natural they should think so. In inverted constructions, however, in which the that-clause
comes before the main clause, that is obligatory: That they are guilty is assumed by everybody.

Notes from Pocket Fowler's Modern English Usage.

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Re: spatial prepositions

Re: Maj - First question (Other than that)