Search results for 'tag:Present perfect tag:Sentence structures' matching tags 'Present perfect' and 'Sentence structures'

Re: What's the last movie you've seen?

Goodman — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:33:52 GMT

ETJW-CMD wrote:

Dear Goodman,

I am one of Hoaâs friends, a member of a friendly yet private English-To-Join-the-World Club that we co-founded here in Vietnam. Last night, she showed me this thread and asked for my opinion. My first reaction was that the present perfect and past tense combination - in that particular example - is illogical. However, I could understand where she came from - It is not grammatical correctness but situational acceptability.

When we get together at our weekly meetings, we sometimes have a good, respectful laugh at the craziness and freedom of English language. Richard Lederer writes, âIn this unreliable English tongue, greyhounds arenât grey; a woodchuck is a groundhog; glowworms are fireflies, but fireflies are not flies (they are beetle)â and âhot dogs can be cold, darkrooms can be lit.â â¦ âSometimes you have to believe that all English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane. In what other language do people drive in a parkway and park in a driveway?â

Such a free spirit coupled with the humors of poking at oneself is what makes the language and its people so wonderful to us.

Having said that, I must be fair to Hoa, whom I know of, is a rather sensitive and wonderful lady. I read the text from the sites that she shared - particularly the BBC site â and found out the reason why she selected it. On page one of the BBC text, we see, âWhat was the last film you saw?â and on page five, âthink of the film you have seen recently, what was it called?â The last one Hoa equated it to âwhat was the film you have seen recently called?â That is her way to express her âcoexistenceâ ideal: an ungrammatical sentence â but informally acceptable - can coexist with a prescriptive one.

Perhaps, the missing connection for all of us is the word recently, which goes rather well with the present perfect!

Thank you and Have a good day!
Chau My

Hello ETJW-CMD,

First, on behalf of the forum,welcome! I am not exactly sure the purpose of your post but I take it that you are speaking on behalf of Hao Thai. The particular sentence that touched off a rather messy debate was " what was the last film you have seen" if I am not mistaken. By the face value of this sentence, it's deemed ungrammatical in my opinion but as usual, there are always different views. What I said two postings ago which in some ways seemed to share something in common with your post, if I read it right. Nonetheless, I still believe that past tense and present perfect can't coexist in one single sentence. But they are possible in relative clauses. If we want to talk about the name of the movie you saw, we can say "what is the name of the movie you saw last week?" which is clearly a grammatically correct past tense sentence . But when we try to combine simple past with present perfect, such as "what was the name of the movie you have seen recently?", it just sounds awkward to most ears, although it may be understood. That said, I agree adverbs such as "since" and "recently" along with many others can reflect a present perfect tone. But "what was the name of the movie you have seen recently?" is still not a sound sentence.

Two postings ago I said:

_{There are plenty of instances where present perfect and simple past can co-exist, but not in the same frame of sentence structure. i.e. âwhen was the last time you have visited Disneylandâ? (wrong)}

_{If my English knowledge is correct, the following is a valid sentence. Not only it contains present prefect and past, it has a present reference as well.}

_{I have been to Disneyland with my family many times but I canât remember which year the last visit was.}_{This kind of mixed tense scenario happens}

Re: What's the last movie you've seen?

Goodman — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:15:54 GMT

"Zip " is the same as "shut up", or "say mo more". It is probably classified as "urban English".

Angry, nah! I just keep nagging until you guys are all driven crazy.

I am not sure what you mean by: <<However: Â«I have seen this movie and I liked itÂ» Â«I have been to Paris but I didn't see him thereÂ»

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the structures ?

_{If my English knowledge is correct, the following is a valid sentence. Not only it contains present prefect and past, it has a present reference as well.}

_{I have been to Disneyland with my family many times but I canât remember which year the last visit was.}

_{This kind of mixed tense scenario happens a lot in day-to-day conversations.}

_{I really donât think people pick on the correctness much except English fanatics, like us!}

Re: Is it wrong?

Goodman — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 23:49:35 GMT

Hi,

Glad you asked this question. How English speaking people use English does not represent the correctness of their English. That said, I would say what you hear depends a lot on the class of people you converse with and this has nothing to do with economics. By that, I mean rich people donât necessarily possess better English skills.

Going back to you questions, in a general sense, it really makes no difference whether you mention âpurchasing the bookâ first or â been to N.Y.â. But if there is a specific context in which you want to emphasize that you had visited N.Y., then you need to put the N.Y. visit at the beginning. Likewise, if you want to emphasize the books, put the book at the front of the sentence structure. If there are two thoughts I want to express with out any order in mind, I would say : I bought many books while visiting N.Y. This has no mention of time. Just a simple sentence with adverbial clause (while visiting N.Y.). However, in a conversation in which people talked about travels, you can say:

Iâve been to N.Y. many time and bought books each time as mementoes. Or simply used a simple past tense: I went to N.Y. many times and bought books as momentous.

Following is the Rule of thumb â Examples

1) Mary shared an apartment with me before. The context suggested that She is no

longer sharing the apartment with you.

2) Mary has been sharing an apartment with me since the beginning of the year. This context requires present perfect progress to depict the time line of past till now.

3) Mary is sharing an apartment with me. This tell people simply Mary shares an apartment with you now, no time line of the past; just now.

4) Mary had shared an apartment with me before she found a job out-of âstate.

This calls for past perfect tense to depict the time line of something happened in the past and finished in the past.

The sharing took place sometime in the past and finished in the past before

another event took place.