Re: since, ago

Anonymous — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 10:00:08 GMT

Hoa Thai wrote:

Hi Goodman,

Maybe I should not touch your nerve again - You are so expressive and I am scared! (for your heart and for my embarrassment). Don't worry, I am all barks and I no bite!

However, I must present my thought to find out what is wrong with it. Here I come.

I havenât been myself since yesterday. Yesterday marks a complete past. I am fine with this
I havenât been myself since I met you. Met marks a complete past. Ditto!

Today is 11/22/2007. Two days ago means 11/20/2007, which marks a complete past. Thus, âI havenât been myself since 11/20/2007â is the same as âI havenât been myself since two days ago.â

Others may feel ok with this but it hurts my ears and probably hurts the earsof the teacher who taught me how to use proper English. She was invited to BeiJing University to teach English in the 80's. When her 5 years contract was finished, she came back to the state and was teaching in the ESL class I was in. If not for her, I most likely won't be able to rub elbows with the English experts here. Well, she was the one that taught me never to mix ago in present perfect situations. For your sentense, I would say "I haven't been myself for the last/ past two days".

That is where my brain becomes confused with your reasoning.

Now regarding your comment about native people might not be better than non-natives in using good English â I understand why you said that: the seemingly biased view causes pain to people who do not belong to the regarded circle. However, we must accept the fact that âperfection is the result of constant use.â (Of course, constantly use in a wrong way will form a bad habit). When ESL learners come to forums like this, with fresh learning, they want a confirmation of people who they trust to take them to the next plateau of knowledge; and they rely on native, know-best, English teachers. I am one of them! (not the teacher, but the learner - mind you) You are overly humble!. It is up to each learner to ask, validate, and ask again. Knowledge seekers are smart people, they will form their own opinion about a forum debate. My goodness! you read my mind. Finally, someone shares my light! And if a non-native English speaker like you can regularly give the information seekers sensible GOOD ENGLISH answers, I think you would establish a good image for yourself. I am not sure what to make of your last comments. But I can tell you this, establishing a good image for myself on this forum is probably "mission impossible" because the image I have created here is one that gets the darts thrown at it! The truth is, I am not the kind who relies on books but rather the kind who learn through media and interacting with others. I am still learning, refining and polishing my English. I make many mistakes and I am not shy saying it because I recognize mistakes allow me to see where I need to improve and remember not to repeat them.

Here is what Edward D Goodman, an excellent writer, editor, and a scholar in my eye, writes, â â¦ good English is a kind of snobbery, It is not standard English but the English of a minority who are likely to consider themselves superior, and are also likely to be considered superior by others. English that is good enough in one context may not be good enough in another, and thus good English amounts to savor faire, a touchstone of the snob. All of us fail to use it occasionally, and some of us fail to use it frequently. Those who fail infrequently look down on those who fail frequently; those who fail frequently either live in constant fear of embarrassing themselves or find some way of taking pride in their unvarnished expression. Those who fail infrequently make further distinctions among themselves; the famous grammarian H.W.Fowler observed, âAlmost every man is potentially a purist and a sloven at once to persons looking at him from a lower and a higher position â¦. than his own.ââ I don't quite grasp what is in his mind - but I sure want to climb the knowledge hill and find the pleasure in use the language,

I am still wondering why Clive though Anon was me! I take that as a complement for a uniqueness of my writing style, which I donât even know I have one.

Best to all,
Hoa Thai

Hi Hao,

Thank you for your post.

Maybe I should not touch your nerve again - I hope you are being humorous and not sarcastic You are so expressive and I am scared! (for your heart and for my embarrassment). Don't worry, I am all barks and no bite!

However, I must present my thought to find out what is wrong with it. Here I come.

I havenât been myself since yesterday. Yesterday marks a complete past. I am fine with this
I havenât been myself since I met you. Met marks a complete past. Ditto!

Today is 11/22/2007. Two days ago means 11/20/2007, which marks a complete past. Thus, âI havenât been myself since 11/20/2007â is the same as âI havenât been myself since two days ago.â

Others may feel ok with the use of "ago with present perfect, but it hurts my ears and probably hurts the ears of the teacher who taught me how to use proper English 20 plus years ago. She was invited to BeiJing University to teach English in the 80's. Many of her graduate students ended up in goverment assigments working as translators and interpretors in the U.N. When her 5 years contract was finished, she came back to the state and was teaching in the ESL class I was in. If not for her, I most likely won't be able to rub elbows with the English experts here. Well, she was the one that taught me never to mix ago in present perfect situations. For your sentense, I would say "I haven't been myself for the last/ past two days".

That is where my brain becomes confused with your reasoning.

Now regarding your comment about native people might not be better than non-natives in using good English â I understand why you said that: the seemingly biased view causes pain to people who do not belong to the regarded circle. However, we must accept the fact that âperfection is the result of constant use.â I couldn't have agreed more (Of course, constantly use in a wrong way will form a bad habit). When ESL learners come to forums like this, with fresh learning, they want a confirmation of people who they trust to take them to the next plateau of knowledge; and they rely on native, know-best, English teachers. I am one of them! (not the teacher, but the learner - mind you) You are overly humble!. It is up to each learner to ask, validate, and ask again. Knowledge seekers are smart people, they will form their own opinion about a forum debate. My goodness! you read my mind. Finally, someone shares my light! And if a non-native English speaker like you can regularly give the information seekers sensible GOOD ENGLISH answers, I think you would establish a good image for yourself. I am not sure what to make of your last comments. But I can tell you this, establishing a good image for myself on this forum is probably "mission impossible" because the image I have created here is one that gets the darts thrown at it! The truth is, I am not the kind who relies on books but rather the kind who learn through media and interacting with others. I am still learning, refining and polishing my English. I make many mistakes and I am not shy saying it because I recognize mistakes allow me to see where I need to improve and remember not to repeat them.

Here is what Edward D Goodman, an excellent writer, editor, and a scholar in my eye, writes, â â¦ good English is a kind of snobbery, It is not standard English but the English of a minority who are likely to consider themselves superior, and are also likely to be considered superior by others. English that is good enough in one context may not be good enough in another, and thus good English amounts to savor faire, a touchstone of the snob. All of us fail to use it occasionally, and some of us fail to use it frequently. Those who fail infrequently look down on those who fail frequently; those who fail frequently either live in constant fear of embarrassing themselves or find some way of taking pride in their unvarnished expression. Those who fail infrequently make further distinctions among themselves; the famous grammarian H.W.Fowler observed, âAlmost every man is potentially a purist and a sloven at once to persons looking at him from a lower and a higher position â¦. than his own.ââ I don't quite grasp what is in his mind - but I sure want to climb the knowledge hill and find the pleasure in use the language,

I am still wondering why Clive though Anon was me! I take that as a complement for a uniqueness of my writing style, which I donât even know I have one.

Re: Present perfect tense question

Goodman — Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:07:44 GMT

Umâ¦.Where do I begin? Well, I am almost sure one or two of you on this forum may have already heard the story before. As Iâd said many time before, learning English is much harder for Asians than Europeans for the simple fact that Asian langauges are not made up of alphabets, except Vietnamese. For Asian born Chinese, the movement of their tongue and jaw has been trained into the muscles from speaking their native dialects. Itâs difficult to re-train them to move in the ways English speaking demands them of moving which in turn causes pronunciation problems for them.

So for a young immigrant who never learned the basics of English, it would seem extremely impossile to learn this language, as least for a period about 2 years. I was 17 when I arrived Calif. But not until 2 years later that I really seriously spent a lot of time studying. The way I learned English is not what you would call academic. In fact, I donât have a college degree because I had to work right away to survive. I couldnât go to regular high school for I wonât understand anyway. My existence for next 5 years was working in the Chinese restaurant at night and went to ESL classes during the day. After I felt confident with my English, I enrolled into a technical college to take the next step, not knowing if I could make it through. I can confortablly now tell you, if you had enough will in you, you can conquer almost anyting. Through my experience, I found out if you are humble to learn people will teach you. Through the years, Iâve kept up with this attitude of practicing what Iâd learned and refining it.

Iâd also like to shar ewith you that television, up till today, has been my best learning tool. It helped me build my speech patterns and word usage by listening and visuals. I am still trying to keep improving my written skills by emulating others writing style. Thatâs why I want to do what little I can to help others because I know how confusing, depressing and frustrating it can be to become fluent in English. To answer your question about proficiency, I would say this, I feel condifident about my English and my ability to express my thoughts clearly. Whether my English is better than native American is not really imporatant to me. Hope my story didn't bore you to tears!

Re: Question

miriam — Wed, 26 May 2004 11:59:42 GMT

If you wish to ask if it started in the past and it is still happening today, the present perfect seems to be the right choice:
"Have women have been treated differently from men throughout history?" is just an example.
Or "Have women and men often/as a rule been treated differently?"

I've read your other posts, but style is not my strong point, and then I'm not sure I fully understand the sentences you posted. But there are people here who are simply great when it comes to style. You could look for "womanfu". She often posts to the "Writing World" section, and I think she gives very good advice to people.

Anyway, I can give this a try. But rememper to ask for a second opinion, please.
"Postmodern feminists argue that the argument âmost crime is male crimeâ is a maleâs concern; women should study the reasons behind that women are harmed by a whole range of processes."

All I can say about this sentence is that it has a grammar mistake.
Instead of âthe reasons behind that womenâ¦â you could say âthe reasons why womenâ¦â
Again, youâll surely find someone better for the style question.

"Another limitation of such explanations is that, we should expect far more women than men to be criminally involved, but reality proves the opposite."

Iâd start by removing the comma placed after âthatâ in the original sentence; it really doesnât belong there.
I would rephrase the sentence as âAnother limitation of such explanations is their veracity. Although they suggest that we should expect many more women than men to be involved in crime/s, reality proves those explanations wrong (or "reality shows that those explanations are not accurate")."

Iâm sure there are better options, and I hope youâll find someone with a better writing style than me soon.

Miriam

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