Search results for 'tag:Present tenses tag:Difference between' matching tags 'Present tenses' and 'Difference between'

subjunctive or simple present in spoken english

Velimir — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:51:43 GMT

Hello again,Â

Again I have a question of course . I am interested in the difference in the usage of the mandative subjunctive and the simple present tense Â in dependent "that" clauses after the verbs of demand as "insist" , "demand" ,"suggest" and "ask" .I suppose that the two are always interchangeable in the sentences like below :

We recommend that you be present here at 10.00 pm.

is the same as:

We recommend that you are present here at Â 10.00 pm.

Am i right ? And how much is the subjunctive mood used in similar situations in spoken english actually?

Is it correct that subjunctive mood would keep the same form if I put the main verb in the past tense i.e :

We recommended that you be present here at 10.00 pm.

and is it the same as :

We recommended that you were present here at 10.00 pm.Â

Best regards and thank you for your help

present and present continous

Anonymous — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:12:01 GMT

Hi, what is the difference between the present tense and present continous tense in terms of their capacity to denote what is occuring or happening now?

The basket still has vegetables in it.
He is going home.

Re: When

Clive — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:54:09 GMT

Hi,
Here are some more questions:

1.
"While we cleaned the windows, they swept the floor."

Do the two activities sound short or what does it emphasize?
Your answer: No. They just sound complete

Does 'complete' mean 'finish' or what else here? Yes, finished.

2."As/While/When I had a shower, the phone rang."

It was dark when/while/as he walked home from work."

Do the simple tenses above emphasize a continuous action as Swan said? Not to me.

3.(1)When/while you are traveling, it is normal to have the runs sometimes.
(2)When/while you traveled, it is normal to have the runs sometimes.

What is the difference between '#1 and #2?
Your answer: #2 stresses duration a bit more.Did I say that? Perhaps I was careless. Only #1 does that. In addition. the past tense in #2 is not correct. It should be present tense.

I'm a litte confused about your anwer here.
Do you mean 'when/while you traveled' stresses duration abit more? No.
Does 'when/while you are traveling' stresses a longer action?Yes.

4.He often whistles when/while/as he walks.
Your answer: I prefer 'while'.
How about 'when' and 'as'?
Are they ok here? Yes.

5.
(1)The students were taking notes while/as they were listening.
(2)The students took notes while/as they listened.

What is the difference between #1 and #2? Not much. #1 stresses duration more.

6.If the actions are happening right now,
(1)The students are taking notes while/as they are listening.

(2)The students take notes while/as they listen.

Your answer:The tense does not make any difference

Do you mean I can use #1 or #2 here to express the actions are happening now? Only #1 clearly indicates right now. Is there any subtle difference between #1 and #2? #2 sounds like it describes the students' routine/habits.

7.'I thought of it just when you opened your mouth.'
What does 'when' stress here if 'as' stresses the two actions happened at the same time?

8."Simultaneous long actions: while/as"(This information is from your post)
(1)According to your answer, 'when' is also fine here. Right? Or 'as' and 'while are more correct? For example,
"When we were cleaning the windows, they were sweeping the floor." 'While' is better. 'As' is OK.

(2)Is 'when' not common to use in such a situaton? Less common than 'while' 'As' is also less common.

9.The examples are from my grammar book. They mean a person does two long actions during the same time:
(1)Grandmother sings while she works.
(2)Grandmother sings as she works.

However, I don't understand if
the two sentences mean it's a habit for her to sing and work during the same time or she is singing and working right now? A habit.

What is the difference between as and while here? Does 'while' stress 'duration' and 'as' stresses the actions happen at the same time?Both mean 'at the same time'.

Is 'when' ok here? What would it emphasize? 'While' is better. ''When' is said, but may, dependiong on context, suggest that she doesn't often work. eg He does his job well when he comes to work sober. If you say 'while' in your example, I don't think much about it. If you say 'when', I might start to wonder why you chose that word.

I've enjoyed trying to help you with this but, if you don't mind, I'd like to move on now to other queries in other threads.

Best wishes, Clive

Re: When

Clive — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:42:42 GMT

Hi,

It might be helpful to you if I first try to summarize the comments on as/when/while by Michael Swan in his very useful book, 'Practical English Usage'. I think it's possible you may have already looked at this, but here it is anyway.

To talk about actions or situations that take place at the seame time, we can use as/when/while. There are some differences.
1. Backgrounds: as/when/while
We can use all 3 to introduce a longer background action or situation, which is going on when something else happens.
As I was having a shower, the phone rang.
The phone rang when I was havng a shower.
While I was having a shower, the phone rang.

All 3 clauses can go at the beginning or the end, but 'as' clauses usually introduce less important information and most often go at the beginning.

A progressive tense is usually used for the longer background action. But as/while can be used with a simple tense, especially with verbs like sit/lie/grow that refer to a continuous action or state.
As I sat in front of the TV, the phone rang.

3. Simultaneous long actions: while/as

We usually say as/while to show that 2 longer actions or situations went on at the same time. You can use progressive or simple tenses.

While you were sleeping, I was working.
Mary cooked dinner while I watched TV.

'As' is used (with simple tenses) to talk about 2 situations which develop or change together.
As I get older, I get more optimistic.

We prefer 'when' to refer to ages and periods of life.
When I was a child, we lived in Britain. (Not As/While I was a child. . . )

His parents died when he was ten. (Not while he was ten)

3. Simultaneous short actions: (just ) as; (just) when

We usually use (just) as to say that 2 short actions happen at the same time.
As I opened my eyes, I heard a strange voice.
Mary always arrives just as I start work.

(Just) when is also possible.
I thought of it just when you opened your mouth.

4. Reduced clauses with 'when' and 'while'.

It's often possible to omit 'subject + be' after 'when', especially when it means 'whenever', and also after 'while'.
Don't forget to signal when turning right ie when (you are) turning right.
Start when ready ie when (you are) ready.
While in Japan, he learned Japanese. ie while (he was) in Japan.

Now, I'll try to comment on your questions. These are my comments, not Swan's. I haven't refered back to Swan to review my answers. I've just answered from the point of view of an ordinary native speaker.

I'm greatful for your answers. However, I'm still unclear about their usage. Here are my questions:
1.
(1)He carelessly stepped on Jenny's foot while he danced with her.
(2)He carelessly stepped on Jenny's foot while he was dancing with her.

What is the subtle difference in meaning between #1 and #2? #2 suggests more that he did not just dance with her for a short time.

(3)He carelessly stepped on Jenny's foot when he danced with her.
(4)He carelessly stepped on Jenny's foot when he was dancing with her.

What is the difference between #3 and #4? Same comment.

2."While we cleaned the windows, they swept the floor."
(1)Do the two activities sound short or what does it emphasize? No. They just sound complete.
(2)The difference between 'while we were cleaning' and 'while we cleaned' can apply to 'as we were cleaning' and 'as we cleaned' and 'when we were cleaning' and 'when we cleaned'? Yes.

3."It was dark as he was walking home from work."
(1)I am confused why 'as' is ok here because there aren't two actions in the sentence. It's probably because the verb 'be' is special. Here, it describes an ongoing state.
(2)Can I say
"It was dark when/while/as he walked home from work." Yes

4.If 'when' means 'whenever' can I use 'while' or 'as' instead of 'when'? For example,
(1)When/while/As you are traveling, it is normal to have the runs sometimes. 'When/while' sound OK. 'As' doesn't sound so good to me. It also sounds a bit like it might mean 'because'.

Can I use simple present tense here, as in
(2)When/While/As you travel, it is normal to have the runs sometimes. Same comment as just above.

What is the difference between '#1 and #2 #2 stresses duration a bit more.

5.If the same person does two actions during the same period of time, Sould I use while, when or 'as here? Here are three pairs of examples, which is correct in the pairs?

(1)John~~is often whistling~~ when/while/as he is walking. Continuous does not sound correct here, because 'often' refers to a habit, which is best described by a simple tense.
(2)He often whistles when/while/as he walks. I prefer 'while'.

(3)The students took notes while/when/as they listened.
(4)The students were taking notes while/when/as they were listening.
(If the actions happened some time ago) 'When' does not sound good here. It sems to suggest that sometimes the students were not listening. Like'whenever'.

If the actions are happening right now, can I say
(5)The students are taking notes while/when/as they are listening.
or
(6)The students take notes while/when/as they listen.
The tense does not make any difference. Same comments as just above.

6.When it comes to 'age' can I use 'while'? For example,
'When she was only five years old, she could speak three languages.'
Can I use 'while' here instead of 'when? No. See Swan's comment on this.

7.'I thought of it just when you opened your mouth.'

I think 'when' means 'at the time that' here and the two actions happened at the same time. Can I use 'as' instead of 'when' as in
'I thought of it just as you opened your mouth.' Yes.

By the way, what does 'subject to' mean in 'subject to my comments above'?

It means 'Consider my comments above'. 'Yes, subject to my comments above' means "The answer is 'Yes', but only to the extent allowed by my comments above".

Clive

Re: When

Anonymous — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:20:18 GMT

Hi Clive,

What is the subtle difference in meaning between #1 and #2?

(3)He carelessly stepped on Jenny's foot when he danced with her.
(4)He carelessly stepped on Jenny's foot when he was dancing with her.

What is the difference between #3 and #4?

2."While we cleaned the windows, they swept the floor."
(1)Do the two activities sound short or what does it emphasize?
(2)The difference between 'while we were cleaning' and 'while we cleaned' can apply to 'as we were cleaning' and 'as we cleaned' and 'when we were cleaning' and 'when we cleaned'?

3."It was dark as he was walking home from work."
(1)I am confused why 'as' is ok here because there aren't two actions in the sentence.
(2)Can I say
"It was dark when/while/as he walked home from work."

4.If 'when' means 'whenever' can I use 'while' or 'as' instead of 'when'? For example,
(1)When/while/As you are traveling, it is normal to have the runs sometimes.

Can I use simple present tense here, as in
(2)When/While/As you travel, it is normal to have the runs sometimes.

What is the difference between '#1 and #2

5.If the same person does two actions during the same period of time, Sould I use while, when or 'as here? Here are three pairs of examples, which is correct in the pairs?

(1)John is often whistling when/while/as he is walking.
(2)He often whistles when/while/as he walks.

(3)The students took notes while/when/as they listened.
(4)The students were taking notes while/when/as they were listening.
(If the actions happened some time ago)

If the actions are happening right now, can I say
(5)The students are taking notes while/when/as they are listening.
or
(6)The students take notes while/when/as they listen.

6.When it comes to 'age' can I use 'while'? For example,
'When she was only five years old, she could speak three languages.'
Can I use 'while' here instead of 'when?

7.'I thought of it just when you opened your mouth.'

I think 'when' means 'at the time that' here and the two actions happened at the same time. Can I use 'as' instead of 'when' as in
'I thought of it just as you opened your mouth.'

By the way, what does 'subject to' mean in 'subject to my comments above'?

I appreciate your help.

Re: "...should have arrived there by now..."

yizhivika — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:21:59 GMT

Hi,

1.What is the difference between 'by now' and 'now'?
Why can't I use 'by now' in 'I have walked over 500 miles by now.' While 'now' can be used here?

I'd guess part of the reason you're finding this so perplexing is because you're trying to treat the English language as though it should have all the logic of a computer language. By profession, I'm a computer programmer, and I know that I have to follow logical rules, and construct my programs accordingly, otherwise they simply will not compile, let alone do what I want them to do.

We all know that human languages are not like this; they grow organically over centuries, and while some have more logical grammars than others, English, being the verbal cornucopia that it is, perhaps struggles more than most to remain constrained within a perfectly logical system of grammar.

So, I think it's generally best just to accept English with all its illogicalities and inconsistences, and learn it simply by imitating the usage of literate and competent native speakers of the language.

With that diversion out of the way, the difference between 'by now' and 'now', generally, is that 'by now' means 'by this time' and 'now' means 'at this time', but, as ever, you can't necessarily treat the words in isolation; they often need a context to give them meaning.

The reason why you shouldn't use 'I have walked over 500 miles by now.' is because the 'literate, competent English-speaker' alluded to above, wouldn't use it (and the question of logic really doesn't enter into it).

2.Can 'by now' sometimes mean 'at this time'?

Not in any context that immediately comes to mind (although one may occur to other native-speakers of English!); as mentioned above, it's best to think of it as meaning 'by this time'.

3."I have seen the movie now; I saw it last week."
Can I say 'I have seen the movie by now; I saw it last week.' instead?

No, just say 'I have seen the movie now; I saw it last week'

4.After a long walk from home, we arrive at the station at three o'clock. By now...
Can I use 'at this time' or 'at that time' instead of 'by now' here?

Only if you wanted to introduce a subtle change of meaning (and since the sentence is written in a quasi-present tense, you'd use 'At this time' rather than 'At that time' here).

However, I chose "By now' for the sentence, because it exactly conveys the meaning I intended.

Finally, I think that I've now contributed all I usefully can to this topic, and I hope you've found at least some of it useful.

Re: "...should have arrived there by now..."

yizhivika — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 06:43:16 GMT

Hi,

With the expression 'by now', you can always substitute 'by this time' to get more of a sense of its meaning. The reason English-speakers use 'by now' in preference to 'by this time' is for verbal economy, convenience or variety.

I do accept that in giving the example,

"After a long walk from home, we arrive at the station at three o'clock. By now [i.e. by this time], it is raining heavily, so we hurry to the shelter of the Waiting Room." ,

I might have confused you (sorry!), but I quoted that particular example to show that 'by now' can exist in a variety of scenarios and tenses in English, and will defy any attempts to make a prescriptive rule for its use, as you were attempting to do in your first post above.

Incidentally, in that "After the long walk home..." phrase, you asked why I didn't put the verbs in the past tense: occasionally, some native English-speakers use the present tense, when recounting events in the recent past, to give those events a greater sense of immediacy. I suppose you might also find the same 'timeless' use of the present tense, in play or film scripts, when describing events that have never happened, nor ever will happen, other than in the fictional construct of the play or film.

Anyway, there, I was simply giving another example of the use of 'by now' that doesn't fit into your 'prediction' definition above.

What is the difference between the two sentences?

1.They have gone to bed by now.

This is ungrammatical English, and native speakers wouldn't use it.

2.They will/would have gone to bed by now"

This means that at the time the statement was made, '"They', the subject, are/would be in bed!

Re: dared to dream

CalifJim — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:36:04 GMT

Interesting. The tense switch did not occur to me as a possible problem. There is certainly no implied if, as in if you (ever) dared to dream (such a situation) -- not to my ear.

I would say it's an abbreviated way of saying situation that you have never dared to dream.

never seems to neutralize the difference between the simple past and the present perfect at times. (The present perfect is usually the "more correct" formulation.)

There is nothing that implies an if in these, for example.

This is a situation [you / we / they] (have) never experienced before.

Henry is good at planning ahead. He often brings up potential problems that [the boss / Kate / the staff / the committee] (has) never thought of.

I (have) never made that statement. It is a statement that I (have) never made.

The same situation does not occur with the past point of view because both the simple past and the present perfect have the same backshift -- the past perfect.

Henry often brought up problems that the boss had never thought of.

______

But aside from the subtleties mentioned above, keep in mind that, in general, the mixing of tenses does not really require exotic explanations. Take the example above:

I (have) never made that statement. It is a statement that I (have) never made.

The 'statement' can be spoken of in a timeless way with the present tense even if certain facts about the statement are expressed in the past. Similarly:

These are the very words he said: blah, blah, blah.

This is the book that I [ read / bought ] last month.

A scar is a trace of something that happened in the past.

Hamlet is a play which was written long ago.

These look like the results of the survey we did last year.

Re: select few

Clive — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:37:09 GMT

Hi,
Actually I wanted to see the difference between select a few and selected a few.

It's just present tense / past tense. Or are you asking about something else?
Clive

PS
Perhaps you mean this adjectival form.

They only represent a select few young girls.
They only represent a selected few young girls.

Say #1, not #2.

use of video at class-ideas

linguaprof — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:12:44 GMT

Hi! This is something I wrote for our teachers in Romania, I am sure many of you will find these ideas/tricks useful. I have a huge experience with using videos at class and I think it is esential for effective&interesting classes.

Use of video

Advantages
- more interesting and varied classes
- more "authentic" speaking exercises
- more opportunities for students to speak
- possibility for the tired teacher to take a short rest while
students watching the video-but don't use it as a simple "time
filler"!
- intensive "production" speaking exercises
- videos can be used for both accuracy and fluency type of
exercises

Watching 3-5 minutes, then:
- students asking each other questions-open and closed
- the teacher asking the students questions-open and closed
- the teacher saying sentences about the video which are not
true, the students have to correct him/her
- the students have to say true/ untrue sentences about the
video
- the teacher starts a sentence about the video, the students
have to complete the sentence giving true or untrue information.
- students might be asked to continue the story- they can
write the continuation down, or say it directly, depending on their
level

- depending on the students' level and speaking skills the
teacher can direct the activities- for example students will ask
questions only with Do they haveâ¦?, or Are thereâ¦? Or say sentences
with There areâ¦., in this way " Production" speaking exercises with
a video can be used teach a specific grammar structure. Don't forget
that interrogative mood is more difficult for your students, so for
the beginning ask them to say questions starting with the same
structure.

If you are tired, you can let your students note down things about
the video while watching it for 6-7 minutes, and then tell you what
they have just seen.

"Stop and go "exercises- these can be used in an extremely intensive
way to teach speaking. The exercises can be the same as at point 1,
but the teacher uses "frozen" pictures. In a 3-4 minute video, we
can find at least 50-60 suggestive images that can
be "authentically" used to provoke speaking.
We can stop the video repeatedly in the middle of a sentence,
students can be asked to continue it somehow.
We can ask students to predict what is going to happen in the next
moments- present tenses can be used too, not only future, so the
lack of appropriate grammar usage is not a problem.

Using DVDs with English subtitles
These can be used mostly with pre-intermediate and upper students.
The students can watch a 4-6 minutes video, with subtitles, then
- teacher can stop the DVD time by time, and analyze the
sentence that you heard and which can be seen on the screen). As we
discussed a our training, a sentence like "She hasn't discussed it
with her mother yet." can be analyzed according to the four language
systems and we can teach grammar vocabulary, functions or phonology
by it- in this case grammar especially. At lower levels it is
preferable to teach just vocabulary or one type of grammar
structure, at intermediate and higher levels students might like the
mixture of learning different systems and skills.
- students can play the role of the teacher, they can use the
remote control and instruct other students what to do (clever
children love these kind of situations), or "to teach" structures

Watching a "mute" video
- students can comment what they see in the pictures
- students can try to say what the characters say in the
pictures

Listening to the video, without watching
- students can imagine what is shown on the screen wile
listening to a commentary or people speaking on the video

Videos to introduce a topic
This often needs preparation, and a wider range of videos available
so that it can be of real help. Used well, it can be an
excellent "starting point" for a class- for conversational classes
especially.

These are a few ideas about using video at class- for a creative
teacher these activities don't need too much preparation. Don't
forget to make a difference between accuracy and fluency exercises,
and DON"T CORRECT your students while they try to express
themselves. Video lessons like the ones from the REWARD interactive
CDs accompanied by Video Resource Pack for teachers can help you
create even more professional classes